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Thread: VAT

  1. #191
    Whitelighter's Avatar
    Whitelighter is offline Registered User
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    Default Re: met HMRC at LIBS

    What you say has some truth in it, but in the example you give the events you describe could not happen.

    Section 728 is concerned with the New Means of Transport legislation and does not apply to vessels, vehicles or aircraft once over a certain age.

    Section 7.1 in its entirity:

    [ QUOTE ]
    7.1 Who is entitled to a refund?
    You may be entitled to a refund of VAT if you satisfy all the following conditions:

    you are not registrable for VAT in the UK

    you are selling your NMT to another person, and that person intends to remove the NMT to another Member State within two months of the date of supply

    you can demonstrate that you have paid UK VAT on your NMT.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The key phrase in the above rule is NMT. This is a clearly defined state, in section 2.1 of the same notice. Agin in full:

    [ QUOTE ]
    .1 What is a 'means of transport'?

    A 'means of transport' is any of the following when it is intended for the transport of passengers or goods:

    a boat more than 7.5 metres long (about 24.6 feet)

    an aircraft with a take-off weight of more than 1550 kilograms (about 4417 lb), or

    a motorised land vehicle which:
    - has an engine with a displacement or cylinder capacity of more than 48 cubic centimetres, or

    - is constructed or adapted to be electrically propelled using more than 7.2 kilowatts (about 9.65 horsepower).



    [/ QUOTE ]

    To be defined as 'New', a boat must:

    when more than three months have elapsed since the date of its first entry into service (see paragraph 2.3),

    and

    it has, since its first entry into service, travelled under its own power for more than 100 hours if it is a boat

    So unless the transfer takes place in the first 3 months and 100 hours, the VAT is locked an never reclaimable. So if you are buying a boat that is older than three months, and has more than 100 hours you can never be persued by any other EU state for non payment of VAT as you could never have reclaimed it.

    NMT legislation is a [--word removed--] and is fraught with confusing information.
    Half a dinari for an old ex-boater

  2. #192
    jfm's Avatar
    jfm is offline Registered User
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    Default Re: met HMRC at LIBS

    Steve, that really is quite wrong. The sunseeker owner absolutely cannot get that refund. Nor does the French buyer have any VAT to pay on the import into france

    There is a very limited exception under the NMT regs when a boat is new, but your sunseeker isn't new (as defined - new means very new)

    More generally, I have got to the bottom of this and there are some limited cases where a boat CAN be seized by HMRC, and intriguingly paying 100/115 of the purchase price as oft recommended is no remedy

    I will write a longish post in a few days - as hinted above it'll involve some limited back-tracking by me but I'm happy to feast on humble pie (and champagne!). I have started to draft that post but v busy with travel right now (see the time!) so it'll be in a few days.

    Edit - I see jez already covered this!

  3. #193
    snk is online now Registered User
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    Default Re: met HMRC at LIBS

    Jez & jfm, I stand corrected. Agreed, only applies to very new boats.

    So, is the VAT, by default, imbedded in the price of a second hand boat ( not a NMT), which first entered service in the EU and never left the EU ? I'm certain the answer is yes because as Jez says, no owner can claim a VAT refund.

    Can this boat loose its VAT paid status, in some other way, if it continues to stay in the EU ? It would seem not. Therefore, an original invoice/receipt is not required by an owner.

    The above is assuming boats owned by private, non VAT registered individuals.
    Steve

  4. #194
    ari's Avatar
    ari is offline Registered User
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    Default Re: met HMRC at LIBS

    Just caught up with all of this and it is fascinating! Especially enjoyed JFM's "head to head" with HRMC. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    JFM, I look forward to your next writings, it sounds a little like you've found a fly in the ointment?
    Ari

    ---------------------------------

    If a man speaks in a forest, and there is no woman to hear him, is he still wrong..?

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