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  1. #21
    John100156's Avatar
    John100156 is offline Registered User
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    Default Re: Does this worry those of you who keep boats in spain?

    Mike - I have found the RYA useful for UK related issues and given there is a lot of confusion even in Spain, I suppose we cannot expect too much from them in this regard.

    Many of us are keeping an eye on this, I would welcome an answer to my previous question:

    Has <span style="color:red"> ANYONE </span> participating in this forum, that have been resident in Spain for less than 183 days, ever been prosecuted and/or actually had to pay this tax?

    If not, I expect this would give us some (but not total) comfort!
    SEALINE F43 - CORAL RAE

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Does this worry those of you who keep boats in spain?

    How can you say that? There is nothing there that is inconsistent with previous posts and sources. Difficult also to see why the RYA should be particularly bothered with a Spanish tax that is not specific to boats and only seems to affect people who are resident in Spain!

    I also have difficulty with trying to draw any comparison with how boats are treated for tax purposes in the UK or indeed any other country. This is not an EU law, and is nothing to do with human rights. It is a Spanish law and they are surely entitled to have their own laws on taxes, just as we do in the UK. The fact that it seems both ill founded if it drives away tourists - although that may not bother them and unequally applied is irrelevant. The same applies to their boat registration and licencing requirements - they are entitled as a sovreign state to establish their own requirements.

    However, they seem to allow non-residents otherwise "free" use of their territorial waters and land facilities without any tax or other conditions provided the owner stays non-resident. Seems pretty generous to me.

  3. #23
    Whitelighter's Avatar
    Whitelighter is offline Registered User
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    Default Re: Does this worry those of you who keep boats in spain?

    [ QUOTE ]
    However, they seem to allow non-residents otherwise "free" use of their territorial waters and land facilities without any tax or other conditions provided the owner stays non-resident. Seems pretty generous to me.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Er, not really so generous when you consider it is a conditon of being an EU member state that you allow residents of other EU member states free and unencumbered visitation to your state.

    We can move anywhere inside the EU uncharged and pay taxes in our state of residency only. This is a right.

    What is not a right, is for member staes to levy unfair taxes or charges on residents of other EU states. Spain are not the only country to flout the rules, but when it comes to penalising other EU nationals (land grab as one example) they seem to be very deft at it, and dont seem to give a fig about the EU law.
    Half a dinari for an old ex-boater

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Does this worry those of you who keep boats in spain?

    For boats it is absolutely nothing to do with the EU as far as navigation in coastal waters is concerned. That is covered by the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. See the RYA magazine Autumn 2008 pages 17-19 for a neat summary or the website for more details. Once you have read that you will understand that there are very strict limits on what a foreign flagged vessel can do when in the territorial waters of another Coastal State. However, most states allow you to do more than the Convention requires.

    As to the tax part, I have seen nothing that suggests the Spanish are applying this tax to boats owned by non residents for tax purposes. I think the problem arises when people go to Spain to live in the sun and then discover that by doing so they become tax resident. In this thread we have seen the expression "getting away with it" used to refer to individuals who may be liable for Spanish tax, but so far have not paid it. I guess there are many of them because of the difficulty for the authorities in finding them and enforcing the law - assuming there is a will to do so in the first place.

    So, please keep the rights of foreign flagged vessels separate from asset taxes - there is no connection.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Does this worry those of you who keep boats in spain?

    the Spain burocracy machine against UK nationals have been going since the 80s, what I am surprised as at today is to still see the ammount of boats from Brits there placed there
    I think a 50% share of boats there are of British if not more
    after all this I am still surprised at how much Brits choose Spain over other EU countries who are much more welcoming IMO
    1) you still need a plane to go there
    2) it is bloody expensive
    3) nice but IMO few cruising grounds are special
    for the same money I prefare France, Italy
    want better crusing ground I would choose Croatia or Greece...
    leave them do the taxes they want instead of complaining one should just move on and if this happens in mass you would see how all the taxes will be removed after a period....

  6. #26
    mikef's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does this worry those of you who keep boats in spain?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Imagine you was really really rich

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I suppose then that 12% tax is not going to worry you [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  7. #27
    mikef's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does this worry those of you who keep boats in spain?

    [ QUOTE ]
    However, they seem to allow non-residents otherwise "free" use of their territorial waters and land facilities without any tax or other conditions provided the owner stays non-resident. Seems pretty generous to me.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Doesn't seem v generous to me when you consider how much money non resident boat owners put into the local Spanish economy. If I tot up all the money I spend in Spain in terms of berthing fees, fuel, maintenance, car hire, eating out and spending in local shops, I bet it's not far short of €40k per year. Now if the Spanish want to hit me with a 12% tax on my boat, then I'd happily take my €40k to France or Italy

  8. #28
    Whitelighter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does this worry those of you who keep boats in spain?

    I agree with you on Croatia, its just a shame they arent in the EU - so keeping your boat there for any length of time would mean it looses its VAT paid status and that is a big problem...
    Half a dinari for an old ex-boater

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Does this worry those of you who keep boats in spain?

    [ QUOTE ]

    How can you say that? There is nothing there that is inconsistent with previous posts and sources. Difficult also to see why the RYA should be particularly bothered with a Spanish tax that is not specific to boats and only seems to affect people who are resident in Spain!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    My comment is and still is about the RYA's inability to provide advice.

    In all the places that I've read, matriculation and wealth tax are considered different. In my view matriculation is a sort of import duty and has nothing to do with wealth. Read the links in this thread - they are quite specific and the RYA seem to me to have completely the wrong end of the stick.

    And as far as not being particularly relavent to Spain, as a paying member of the RYA, i say, if they are going to comment on something - it should be accurate.

  10. #30
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    Default Pardon?

    [ QUOTE ]
    they arent in the EU - so keeping your boat there for any length of time would mean it looses its VAT paid status

    [/ QUOTE ] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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