Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 29
  1. #11
    binch is offline Registered User
    Location : gradually diminishing with age. Now Europe
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    585

    Default Re: radar reflectors

    My post was bound to get up noses of the young. I am still at sea quite a lot on bridges as well as in cockpits, and the standard of total watchkeeping (by which I mean the way the ship as an entity is managed) is just not good enough. I do not believe that a big ship with its enormous bridge area and spread of instruments should be under the command of only one man. This is ship economics rather than technical expertise Time makes little difference to individual people, but practices do change.
    The area where practice has improved in my lifetime has been in the air. I admire the way the aviation industry has established procedures which completely outlaw the gung-ho attitude that I once worked with in aircraft carriers But there still exist certain airlines that my son-in-law (who is a commercial pilot examiner) will not fly with.
    And the height of radar antennae is critical. Air detection radar used to be high up. Navigational radar comparatively low down. But so many ships have it mounted very high up.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    2,892

    Default Re: radar reflectors

    I think old age is clouding your mind, you're confusing opinion with fact... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    814

    Default Re: radar reflectors

    Well - having just finished reading about Robin Knox-Johnston solo circum navigation in 68/69, it seems he was less than impressed by watch keepers on many of the merchant ships back then - so not sure that much has changed really

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    6,286

    Default Re: radar reflectors

    But so many ships have it mounted very high up.
    __________________________________________________ ____________

    Er..... thats because mounting it lower down would give an excellent radar picture of the superstructure innit......?

    Some of your rant regarding the deterioration of watchkeeping standards I can agree with. You do seem to indicate that everyone ( Quinetiq...Kinetiq... Oh F*** DRA, MCA etc) are idiots and you know everything. A bit sweeping surely?
    I do have some experience myself and Fullcircle is quite correct. RADAR has improved in performance since the war years and any ship that detected a subs conning tower, let alone their periscope at any distance in anything of a sea was damn lucky then! In a flat calm in the Thames estuary it's one thing. In a gale of wind in the English Channel quite another (as with your superior qualifications you will know of course)

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    413

    Default Re: radar reflectors

    [ QUOTE ]
    But there still exist certain airlines that my son-in-law (who is a commercial pilot examiner) will not fly with.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Which ones, please?

  6. #16
    saltwater_gypsy's Avatar
    saltwater_gypsy is offline Registered User
    Location : Now back in Scotland . Boat for sale
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,948

    Default Re: radar reflectors

    Some odds and ends in response to the original grumpy post.

    Search periscopes are now about 10mm in diameter since the use the same type of CCD image detector as in a digital camera. So its not going to be a very good standard for testing Radar.
    The recent article in Yachting World (Dec.) about digital radar was very interesting and shows quite clearly how radar technology has progressed in the two few years rather than the last sixty!!.
    I cant see what you can complain aboutregarding the radar reflector tests . If you read the full report it is quite clear that Qinetic did an excellent job. They showed that the small tubular reflectors did not work at all and that there was a wide range of performance amongst the others.Acritical factor being the angle of heel.
    Since reading the report I have fitted SeaMe and I have noticed a significant difference in the response of large vessels. In speaking to a professional Captain he told me that SeaMe sends out a sufficiently large return signal that the Collision Avoidance signal MUST be responded to if there is any possibility of collision.
    Well, that's my pennyworth Happy New Year!!
    "Cruising is boat maintenance in paradise"
    Seastream 43:
    http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/n...gypsythree.jpg

  7. #17
    binch is offline Registered User
    Location : gradually diminishing with age. Now Europe
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    585

    Default Re: radar reflectors

    I tried to be succinct but only succeeded in upsetting the MN, which was not my intention. You cannot ignore history; to do so is crazy.
    After WW2 at sea 60% of the ships sighted were red ensign. When I was a Suez pilot in the fifties that was still true. And at that time almost all officers went though Pangbourne, Worcesteror or Conway and were first class, although their expertise was confined generally to one type of ship, and often on one route.
    Now, things are different. On a trip down channel a couple of years ago, the red ensign was rare and there were flags that I could not recognise.
    Sometimes an anecdote tells more than statistics: Five years ago, a geneal cargo ship of about 8000 tons sailed from Tunis for Hanburg. Almost at the last minute, she signed on as third mate a 22 year old lady yachtmaster who had no ship experience at all. Halfway up channel or thereabouts the First and second mates came to blows and finished with knives on the bridge. Theey were subdued and locked in their cabins. The Captain and the lay continued to Hamburg, where the incident was investigated.
    The Captain had a little English. The First and second had none and could not speak each other's language, raising questions as to how they handed over. Apparently the Captain did not do anything wrong in signing on the lady with no proper certification.
    There is such a shortage of good officers (and British ones are in demand) that almost anyone can now sign on as third.
    My critique of watchkeeping in ships now was based on this scenario, which we discusssed at an IMO seminar. Nothing can be done because the countries who sell mates and masters' tickets are members too.

  8. #18
    binch is offline Registered User
    Location : gradually diminishing with age. Now Europe
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    585

    Default Re: radar reflectors

    Sorry about the Freudian slip. She was rather a nic gorl.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    6,286

    Default Re: radar reflectors

    Unlike your previous post, I can agree entirely with this one Pud. My experience at sea is entirely amateur but most of my life I have been responsible for building, trials, and handover of vessels to so called "professional" crews and you are right. It's going to hell in a handcart! This only makes me more convinced that I need every modern aid to ensure I am visible though. I sail as I drive. Assume the other vessel is an idiot and react defensively. They are not all idiots of course and some are still good but as you said originally, commercial pressures on them are too great.
    HAPPY NEW YEAR from one grumpy old git to another! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

  10. #20
    Refueler's Avatar
    Refueler is offline Registered User
    Location : Far away from hooray henrys
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    4,328

    Default Re: radar reflectors

    As the owner of a Marine Inspection Company, which not only covers cargo inspections on many different types and nationalities of vessel / crew, we also Superintend various.

    You have an isolated case of a vessel and seem to tar the rest with it. Do you not think that examples of terrible incidents have occurred throughout history ? Do you really believe that it's purely a modern matter that watchkeeping can be sub-standard ?
    I can remember walking onto bridge as 2nd Mate to relieve the 3rd Mate and he was curled up in the corner ... he was Cadet of the Year, had Company and College Prizes etc. for best work. He was true blue Brit. Do I now condemn all Brit 3rd Mates ? (I'd been called by my own alarm clock !).
    I also remember when Red Ensign could be found everywhere - True Red Ensign as well - not the FOC it's become. But you can blame various unions, MNAOA and politicians for that as well as we training 3rd world.

    One of the worst cases of ship conning I saw was that of a US Vessel that ran into Falmouth bay instead of turning left to go up channel ... not a usual MN vessel either - but a Fleet Support Vessel !

    60 yrs ago tests carried out. Sea conditions at time ? Did operators know they were to look for such targets ? In so knowing the sets would have been tuned accordingly. Did they have full complement of dedicated radar operators on board and not people doing more than one job - as ALL Merchant Ships have had since time immemorial ?

    As I replied to a similar vein post of yours previously - RIN is no advert for unbiased independent opinion IMHO. Having had a Father who was a Guest at various functions of theirs and drinking partner to many - I can personally vouch for the Pink Gin Colonial Types that made up RIN. Hopefully as time goes on and they get replaced by more modern people - the Old Empire British and Commonwealth / Strick Line / Cunard / P&O mentality will fade.

    You weren't part of the group that applied to Admiralty for Warrant to wear Swords ?

    Onto Pilots ... UK supplied many Pilots around the world. For some reason foreign countries considered Brit Pilots as the best. Even as a Brit - I fail to see why.
    Jeddah - Ex Liverpool Pilots interested more in getting a drink on-board than missing the reefs going in - yep - not a few times we took our ships in and pilot stood in corner.
    Thames Pilots - we had a Master in Shell, absolute bas**d - but finest ship handler I have ever seen - Charlie xxxxx ... used to just accept TP on board - then tell him- Shut up, stand there and do as I tell you.
    Liverpool Pilot of NW Wales pick-up from Cutter .... guy could hardly get up the ladder, he was so pissed. Flaked out in Pilots cabin, suspended passage in claiming weather. Master gave him few hours to rest - then got me to call him ... we started towards LPool bar ...

    Shall we continue Captain Pud ? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •