Liens on Yachts. Estimated amounts due?

[savageseadog]

I've recently seen a Lien fixed to a yacht by or on behalf of a boatyard for unpaid fees. The owner is absent/missing/untraceable or whatever. The interesting thing for me was that the sum of money outstanding was "estimated" to be x pounds. Knowing the law a bit I wouldn't have have thought a court would have allowed anything other than an exact amount at a certain date for a certain period. The other thing that was a surprise to me was the relatively small sum owed, at least in relation to the value of the vessel.Is there a concept of reasonableness?

Regarding Liens. Are they a court process anyway? what is the procedure?

[lw395]

I expect he can only estimate the legal fees until its all sorted.

[Refueler]

The lien until recognised and accounted for and decreed by court is "reported to be", "estimated to be" etc.

[savageseadog]

[ QUOTE ]
The lien until recognised and accounted for and decreed by court is "reported to be", "estimated to be" etc.

[/ QUOTE ]So the Lien is a pre-court process?

[alant]

I understand that such a court order, 'nailed to the mast' of any 'merchant vessel', covers ALL vessels in a fleet owned by the same owner & can impound those vessels (preventing sailing) anywhere worldwide.

[GeorgeLlewellin]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand that such a court order, 'nailed to the mast' of any 'merchant vessel', covers ALL vessels in a fleet owned by the same owner & can impound those vessels (preventing sailing) anywhere worldwide.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are wrong here. A lien is against the vessel not the owner, that is why the Bill of Sale has the words "Further, * I/we the said transferor(s) for * myself/ourselves and *my/our heirs or successors covenant with the said transferee(s) and *his/their/its assigns, that * I/we have the power to transfer in manner aforesaid the premises hereinbefore expressed to be transferred and that the same are free from encumbrances".
The "free form encumbrances" includes liens which are sold with the vessel.

For further reference Google for "1894 Merchant Shipping Act" and the "1984 Merchant Shipping Act".

[Marsupial]

Lien is a when a trader siezes a asset until a debit is paid. Its normaly done when work has been carried out on the asset and it it is unpaid. It can be for any amount. It wont often get to court, either the owner pays or the trader keeps the asset. If the owner is unhappy the court will decide, he pays and keeps his asset the trader gets his money - so its smiles all round - well almost. Estimated lein is not something I have seen before (but my experience is limited to very few examples of this over 20 or so years), the trader cannot prejudge the outcome of a court action and has to state exactly how much is owed or else there is "no debit" therefore no lein. Sounds a bit like a scare tactic to me.

[savageseadog]

I'll post a photo of the lien in a few days if anyone is interested.

[PARSONSHEATH]

I didn't think you had to go to Court to deal that way, the motor trade have similar remedies which just involve giving notice to an owner (if they can be traced!) , cannot remember the Act, but did check this out many years ago, and I am sure they do have good title to sell if the owner does not cough up, something like "bailment?"

[Twister_Ken]

AFAIK it's not a 'normal court' procedure but an admiralty court one. So the normal A owes B land rules may not apply.