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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    Very few small boats go around carrying all the signal combinations ready for the day they may need to help someone out by giving them a tow.

    When i see a boat being towed I do not know the cause, failed engine being an obvious one but fishing net round prop and rudder, or lost steering.

    If i saw a boat being towed I would always be grateful that 1) I was not the person needing to be towed and 2) what a nice skipper the towing vessel was to go out of his way and I would not hesitate to give way.

    I think you are suffering from the common racing fault of wanting to do so well you start questioning everyone elses right to mildly inconvenience your progress.

    Been there and done that - racing in Poole where the arrival of the ferry in the middle of a fleet can make the results a lottery,

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    Sorry - but I would without question in normal circumstances give wide berth to a yacht towing another ... there's good reason for that IMHO :-

    a) Most yachties are not "experienced" towing skippers and may not have as much control of btheir situation as they think they have .....
    b) I cannot think of any yacht I know of that carries dayshapes or lights suitable to hoist / show in a towing situation etc.

    Colregs are one thing ... but PRUDENT SEAMANSHIP is also an important part of our lives on the water.

    A while back I posted about an aurals question I had for MN Ticket ... DTI examiner asked me what I'd do if I had a tug and tow on port bow and not showing manouevring with difficulty / restricted in ability to manouevre signals ...
    I replied that according to Colregs Rule XX blah blah blah ... I should stand on and keep course and speed and monitor with bearings etc. But in fact I would choose prudent seamanship and make bold obvious alteration to allow him to continue on - monitoring with bearings etc. My reason being that in any case it's easier for me to alter course and avoid close 1/4's than it is for him.
    DTI examiner thanked me and agreed .... giving me full marks for knowing Colregs but also for Seamanship decision.

    Again I have to remark - based on MN experience - Colregs are NOT cast in stone and to be adhered to regardless - they are there to guide and make safe close 1/4's situation where risk of collision may or liable to exist ...

    I do not suggest ignore or throw away the rule book - but use some measure of reality and common sense ...

    If I got to a situation where another boat shouts at me - then I have a serious think about what I did and why ...

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    I don't think that this situation really compares with tugs and merchant ships. A yacht beating in the light winds of yesterday can easily get within shouting distance with absolutely no danger of collision, he can tack off at any time.
    A tug with a tow is a very different animal. I would get out of the way of that.
    Most of these 'solent colregs' questions are not 'near collisions' at all, they are a mixture of inconsideration and failure to look far enough ahead with the occassional dick-waving contest thrown in.
    What I would have done depends on what the towing yachts were. If they were clearly out to race, I would expect them to keep clear. What can be more arrogant than finishing your own race, then spoiling someone else's?
    If the towed yacht is a heavy great cruiser with no one on the wheel, that's a totally different situation, closer to your tug scenario.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    [ QUOTE ]
    I don't think that this situation really compares with tugs and merchant ships. A yacht beating in the light winds of yesterday can easily get within shouting distance with absolutely no danger of collision, he can tack off at any time.
    A tug with a tow is a very different animal. I would get out of the way of that.
    Most of these 'solent colregs' questions are not 'near collisions' at all, they are a mixture of inconsideration and failure to look far enough ahead with the occassional dick-waving contest thrown in.
    What I would have done depends on what the towing yachts were. If they were clearly out to race, I would expect them to keep clear. What can be more arrogant than finishing your own race, then spoiling someone else's?
    If the towed yacht is a heavy great cruiser with no one on the wheel, that's a totally different situation, closer to your tug scenario.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I wasn't comparing tug & tow / merchant ship - just illustrating the art of prudent seamanship. If I had posted that DTI question without any other text - I am certain the "Colregs" experts on here would say "Stand on laddie !" regardless ....

    The OP and his yacht situation - c'mon are people trying to tell me that they can weigh-up situations like this and decide as you suggest in latter part of your post - when often you cannot see all ... sorry I don't agree.

    I prefer to play safe and be a little more forgiving on the water.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    [ QUOTE ]
    I have been towed quite a long distance by no less than Mr. Refueler here, and he did give way to tacking sailboats several times, at least once by slowing down (and no I did not bump into him and he even did announce over VHF that he would slow down in order to give way as it was easier than changing course).

    OK, my boat is quite small, but it isn't a rubber dinghy...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Forgot about that one !!





    If I remember correctly we did a large part of a 20 mile trip like that ... must have been half ?

    I've towed salvaged boats with various damages and tendencies ... one was a bilge keel job that had lost most of one keel and other bits - yawed and played havoc on end of tow - we had to go back to her and put a drogue over one side to help control her ... Not always best to put alongside.
    Given that boat with one keel gone - how would OP or othyers here recognise I have dificulty with her ?

    Towing Jenku was a doddle, he was experienced and helmed his boat behind me ... we had VHF contact etc. so we could manouevre well as he posted ... But not every tow is so fortunate.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    The OP doesn't really tell us very much detail, but it's easy, facile even, to say 'I'm a good seaman, I keep well out of the way of everything", but at weekends in the solent that won't get you very far. Sometimes you have to hold your course in the face of one vessel, in order to carry out your responsibilities to another.
    There are situations where I would totally give way to a yacht towing another, situations where I would expect them to give way, and many cases in between where a situation would be averted by mutually giving each other space.

    It's also easy to say a yacht racing has no extra rights, but if you ever race then you should be prepared to respect other people's racing.
    Sometimes the call of 'hi, we're still racing' will get an apologetic response of 'sorry I thought you'd finished' and everyone is happy. Cowes is kept alive(ish) 10months of the year by racing. To turn up for a few sunny days in the summer and expect the racing boats to accept you towing through the course RAM (i.e. halfway out of control) is perhaps asking a little much?

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    For every uncontrollable salvage tow, there are a thousand cases of towing simply due to lack of motive power.
    You might as well assume every boat you meet has broken steering.
    I think you recognise when something coming towards you is not under control vs just thinks you should get out of the way due to a half understanding of the colregs.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    I have to confess a little surprise, and indeed even some dissapointment, that so many people are so irate about getting out of the way of a boat towing....

    Appreciate the finer points of the colregs here, but whatever happened to decent common courtesy?

    A racing boat (or a cruising boat for that matter) may be stand on under Colregs (ignoring RRS), but it seems that some people do genuinely believe from some of the posts above, that the fact of being a racer gives you the right to make someone (who is helping a fellow sailor) undertake a potentially difficult maneouvre...

    As for the comment that being out on the water 12 months of the year infers some 'godly' right to be inconsiderate, i'll treat that with the contempt it deserves...

    Next time the bloke might decline to offer a tow, because its too bloody difficult as noone will give him any space... and it might be you that needs the tow....

    I'm glad that I sail on the east coast, because round these parts, you'd be offered help and encouragement, not criticism.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    I was on passage on the west side of Harris, Outer Hebrides, the other day, and saw another boat. OK he was quite far away. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    I spent many years sailing the Solent and am well aware of Bank Holidays and Cowes Week etc.

    I maintain that my general reaction to meeting a tow is to stay clear.

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