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  1. #51
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    May 2007
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    Morgana, I'm often in the boat doing the towing!
    And have been v grateful to be the one towed.
    More than once this season already.
    We race keelboats, some having outboards, some not. We often tow each other and give way to others sailing into the harbour against the tide, or still racing. If we were towing and made a mess of things to the extent we influenced the results of the back markers, we would fully expect to be protested under RRS23, have to retire from the race and/or buy them a pint or two!
    Equally if we are sailing and catch a gust, we will avoid those towing, when their overtaking efforts suddenly don't work. More to do with pragmatism than colregs.
    It's very easy to generalise on here. I'm no way saying that all towing situations are like the above. But I would not be surprised if the towing and towed boats were racing boats too...
    Where I was on sunday, the wind was light to the point where the racing vessel would be less able to alter course than the others.
    If things get difficult and we need more space, politely asking for space is the way to go. I will always try to help someone who is prepared to ask.
    As with many of these questions, I find my self asking 'how did this come about?' was the tow holding its course for the previous 10 minutes, then the racing yacht tacked so that it came across the tow 30 seconds later...
    or did the tow alter course towards the racing yacht's path?
    I don't expect they came at each other on a steady heading from over the horizon.
    Makes a difference I think.

  2. #52
    Beadle's Avatar
    Beadle is offline Registered User
    Location : Rural Nth Yorks - 2 miles from bus stop, 8 miles from station.
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    After many many years of practice I have found an infallible way of avoiding colreg arguments in the Solent.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

    I never sail south of Harwich.
    If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    280

    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    Thanks for all the input guys (and gals?) these tend to show that it was not 100% clear either way so let me add a couple of replies to points made.
    1. A+ score to the respondent who asked if it was two Sunsy. Maybe I am biassed here but from experience when I see them in the Solent especially if they are racing as experience shows they don't always know what they are doing like calling "Starboard" when they are on "Port"! Yes I've had that.
    2. I have towed yachts myself - indeed twice this year within my club including when a slightly bigger yacht's engine failed. But I certainly did not think I had my manouvrability restricted that much - speed yes! As someone said you need to anticipate more what's happening in front.
    3. That I was racing and they clearly weren't I did not see as relevant - frustrating while punching the tide but not relevant.
    4. Also as someone said the winds were so light that everything happened in slow motion and their shouting was from quite a distance so collision - provided I tacked - was not possible.

  4. #54
    Elessar's Avatar
    Elessar is offline Registered User
    Location : River Itchen, Southampton
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    Jul 2003
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    [ QUOTE ]
    .
    3. That I was racing and they clearly weren't I did not see as relevant - frustrating while punching the tide but not relevant.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think it's relevant. Not to the colregs of course but it should be to common courtesy.

    If I'm on the boat I'm usually going to the pub, an anchorage, another port or just out for a spin. Being 20 seconds later just does not impact my day. I doubt it would have made any difference to theirs.

    If you're 20 seconds later it might spoil yours.

    So I'd like to think I'd give way if I reasonably could in such circumstances even if I don't have to. Cue now all the people I've carved up in the past. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

  5. #55
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    May 2007
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    Yes it's pretty relevant.
    Sunsail would have been racing.
    They would not like you or me bimbling through their start.
    Do unto others etc.

    scumsail are normally easily deflected by reminding them about the damage deposit.... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

  6. #56
    Kawasaki's Avatar
    Kawasaki is offline Registered User
    Location : Anglesey Wales
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    Elessar and Refueler'
    Have the right view on this Topic imho.

    So someone is getting a tow.Obviously in some sort of trouble.

    OP is not in trouble.
    Cept He might lose a place or two during the Race!

    If a Fellow boater is in trouble on the Sea.
    We are duty bound to help I reckon.

    Blimey there is no Col Regs / stand on thinghy here.

    Tiss commonsense.

    Commercial Guys, Ferries are at work.
    For a Living.
    Us Pleasure Guys / Racers are just out for Fun.
    OK , this was not a Commercial tow it seems.

    However it amazes Me ref racers and pleasure peeps.
    The attitude sometimes.

    'We were the Stand on Vessel' etc etc.

    We are just out for a bit of fun.
    For the Pros, they are making a living.

    For Me, the towed vessel had a Prob.
    Stuff whatever the Regs are.
    Give the Guy some room and the benefit of doubt.

  7. #57
    jenku's Avatar
    jenku is offline Registered User
    Location : Stockholm, Sweden
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    Feb 2004
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    Ah, but you don't have to be "obviously in trouble" just because you are towed. When Refueler towed my I wasn't in trouble at all, but there was no wind and we just thought it was more economic and faster if he towed me with his mighty Perkins than I'd chugged along with my tiny outboard...

    Now this Lady was obviously in distress however, as i found her rowing with engine failure. She asked for a lift and I towed her - under sail! Now what do the colregs say about that? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  8. #58
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    May 2007
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    The colregs say nothing about that. Nothing to be said, it does not change the situation at all, you're still a sailing boat with the same responsibilities etc.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    4,364

    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    Who gives a toss about the semantics, the spirt of the collregs is about common sense and keeping out of each others way, not legal pernickety nit picking and a desire to be filled with righteousness. A guy towing needs a break, shapes or no shapes, common sense and a bit of generosity is all that is needed.
    Ocean Froggie

  10. #60
    Refueler's Avatar
    Refueler is offline Registered User
    Location : Far away from hooray henrys
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    Default Re: Which is stand-on vessel?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Who gives a toss about the semantics, the spirt of the collregs is about common sense and keeping out of each others way, not legal pernickety nit picking and a desire to be filled with righteousness. A guy towing needs a break, shapes or no shapes, common sense and a bit of generosity is all that is needed.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The problem as I see it - many believe ColRegs to be cast in stone and yee shall be Hung Drawn and 1/4'd to EVER consider not following them in every circumstance no matter what .... in their eyes the score is : ColRegs 1 : Seamanship / Common Sense 0

    Sad ....

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