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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by epervier View Post
    Currently in employment?
    What's the first thing a professional (insert any role appropriate to the discussion) says when he starts work?







    "Do you want fries with that?"

  2. #52
    JasonClark is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by sighmoon View Post
    Fascinating reactions to this. I'm surprised it attracted so much controversy.

    Man commits crime; there's a witness. What more do you need?

    Witness also took a video. More evidence. Seems pretty straightforward to me.



    The video on youtube is not the trial, merely evidence of a crime. The trial will be in front of a judge. A policeman has been made aware that a crime has taken place, and there is evidence; what choice does he have but to pursue it?

    Youtube evidence has been used before:
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08..._broads_idiot/
    You are indeed correct ! YouTube evidence has been used countless times as evidence in court, everything from kids beating up other kids and filming it on there Mobile's to petrolheads flying down the motorway at crazy speeds, incidentally it was'nt all that long ago the police managed to nab someone who's mate filmed him doing a 140 MPH on a motorbike on our local motorway, it ended up on youtube the police duly found it and managed to track him down and before he knew he was sat in court and fully prosecuted all on the back of a youtube video.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by sighmoon View Post
    Fascinating reactions to this. I'm surprised it attracted so much controversy.

    Man commits crime; there's a witness. What more do you need?

    Witness also took a video. More evidence. Seems pretty straightforward to me.



    The video on youtube is not the trial, merely evidence of a crime. The trial will be in front of a judge. A policeman has been made aware that a crime has taken place, and there is evidence; what choice does he have but to pursue it?

    Youtube evidence has been used before:
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08..._broads_idiot/

    Not in this case, it hasn't come to court and there is no evidence they intend to proceed with a prosecution that I can find. In any case, the man was identifiable. In the matter we are discussing, the jet ski drivers and indeed exact details of their craft are just blurs and you cannot prosecute unless you can positively and undeniably identify the driver.

    This entire discussion is ridiculous and just to put the record straight, yet again, their actions were stupid, probably dangerous, but there is little evidence they have broken any bye-law that can be proved beyond reasonable doubt in court. As to idiots filming themselves speeding on motorcycles with the speedometers in the picture, that is an entirely different ball game.

    If I were to film a motorist speeding down my road, without any calibrated speed reading, despite Sarabande's video frame time signal (I think a death would be required before Essex police embarked on such a costly forensic adventure) the police wouldn't look at it.

    They cannot even prosecute a driver who is caught on a villager operated speed gun supplied by the police and used to put the bejesus up errant speeders.

    The offence has to be collected by a trained operator or calibrated static camera.

    If anyone gets charged in this case, I will eat my ha....erm dinner.

    Now, who hasn't stopped their strings slapping the masty thing?

  4. #54
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    Jun 2005
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    Default Jetskiers

    I regularly sail dinghies on the sea and have been quiet scared by jetskiers doing what I can only describe as buzzing me,the kids in my boat were in tears because of it.Obviously we are quite vunerable in a dinghy .Next time I will film them and then try and get more evidence ie when they load the jet skis on to their trailers ,car numbers etc.
    If we all did this regularly perhaps tragedies like the recent one could be avoided.
    I think its good the police are sorting out jet skiers ,they seem to think they are above being held to account for some fairly awful and dangerous behaviour at times.

  5. #55
    maxi77's Avatar
    maxi77 is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Catastrophe View Post
    I sincerely hope that prosecution by Youtube doesn't become the norm, but inless the drivers of the jetskis can be positively identified and traced this is a gross misuse of police time and public money to even try and trace them. I assume there is a speed limit within the moorings the alleged offence took place. If not, then upsetting you is not prosecutable.

    Must admit, those ripples they caused looked fearsome.

    My advice is to chill out a bit.
    The answer to illegal or anti social behaviour is not to chill out, that just encourages the prats to do it again.

    This is not prosecution by Youtube, rather the reality that mr plod does check out youtube for information on those breaking the law in a variety of ways. Round here they have been using it to track down gang members showing off illegal weapons, should we be chilling out about this too.

    Not taking action makes law breaking acceptable is that what you advocate.
    Peter

  6. #56
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    I have some sympathy with small boats for whom an 8kts speed limit is in that difficult area above displacement speed but below minimum planing speed. I have a 6m RIB (but no reliable speed meter unless I have h/held GPS mounted and powered up) and, in a quiet area of a speed restricted harbour, which typically has a speed limit of 8 or 10 kts, out of sight of officialdom and well away from moored boats, I will often try to balance the boat speed to be 'just on the plane'. The resulting speed is ~10-12 kts (maybe more or less over ground depending on stream/tide). The alternative is to plough along at 4-5kts, because at 8 kts I would be simply burning loads of fuel for not much advantage, the boat riding bow high and not feeling comfortable or settled.

    However, in amongst the moorings or with lots of traffic around, it's simply absolutely necessary to slow down to 4-5kts in order to reduce wash and avoid upsetting other users.

    So I acknowledge that I do from time to time exceed the speed limit (as I do when driving on the road) but, I believe, I pay due regard to the reasons for the existence of the limit.

    There is, to my mind, a qualitative distinction to be drawn between that and (as appears to be the case from dylan's video) tearing through a narrow channel, probably in shallow water, at double the speed limit or more and paying little or no regard to the convenience, comfort or safety of other water users.

  7. #57
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    I have some sympathy with small boats for whom an 8kts speed limit is in that difficult area above displacement speed but below minimum planing speed.
    It's a limit ... not a target .... !!!
    Theortically I should lay into you about abusing the speed limit and instruct you to potter along at 4-5kts creating minimum wash without breaking the limit.
    In practice I rather suspect your one of the sensible ones who acknowledges the general synopsis and along with your local knowledge you can determine if it is 'safe to speed' at that particular time.

    I drive a 6m support rib for the club (on a rota basis) and it is impossible to cover the racing and stick to the speed limit - as the dinghies are all capable of doing over 8 knots (the limit in the harbour) so you have to exceed the limit from time to time - it is just a case of minimising when you do so and with no inconvenience to other water users.

    IMHO the Chichester harbour patrol boats are not interested in the 'slightly over the limit' speeders - providing they are doing so sensibly, it is the ones that take the pee that they want - an unofficial policy which can be seen in their court cases.

  8. #58
    snooks's Avatar
    snooks is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Catastrophe View Post
    In the matter we are discussing, the jet ski drivers and indeed exact details of their craft are just blurs and you cannot prosecute unless you can positively and undeniably identify the driver.
    Erm..S'cuse me? Ever thought about the detail you're seeing on Youtube isn't what the camera captured? Youtube is compressed, and the frame rate reduced, the video Dylan shot is likely to have far more detail...

    So if there is more information on the original footage, the driver, his PWC and his mate might well be positively identified.
    Yachting photographer http://grahamsnook.com/news
    (and boat tester)

  9. #59
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    I have to be honest, I love a bit of speed and to be honest over the past 10 years or so i've owned a couple of boats where I could really tramp along.
    My Brother used to have a speed boat and it really gets the pulse racing at 40-50kts.

    However, the key point is that this was always done in open water.

    Having just watched the youtube clip, I have to be honest, the PWC/Speedboat 'riders' are bang out of order.
    In mooring areas like West Mersea I always expect there may be someone in a dinghy boarding their boat or perhaps just doing some boat inspections.
    I've been known to be in the dinghy having a good look at my outdrive leg etc.

    To be honest, the wash is probably far less than a motorboat pushing their displacement speed but that's not the point. It's about safety.

    I don't want some blanket rules applied to PWC/Powerboat owners but i'd like to see cases like this followed up as at the moment, dare i say alot of people think rules at sea are guidlines and not the rules.

  10. #60
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    I have watched in HD and the jetskiers are just blurs or have their faces turned away. I expect the boat and driver may be easily identified, but even then I doubt any prosecution will take ever place.

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