View Poll Results: Which Colregs should small craft skippers be encouraged to ignore?

Voters
108. You may not vote on this poll
  • Rule2: the ordinary practice of seamen

    10 9.26%
  • Rule 5: Lookout

    11 10.19%
  • Rule 6: Safe speed

    10 9.26%
  • Rule 8: Action to avoid collision

    9 8.33%
  • Rules 9 and 10: Narrow channels and separation schemes

    10 9.26%
  • Rules 12-16: the everyday steering and sailing rules

    11 10.19%
  • Rule 17: Action by stand-on vessel

    14 12.96%
  • Rule 18: the pecking order

    16 14.81%
  • Part C -- lights and shapes

    11 10.19%
  • None of the above: We should obey all of them

    88 81.48%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 93
  1. #81
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    29,898

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bedouin View Post
    The problem with this - and in fact the same is true of almost any action by a stand on sailing vessel, is that if you stop and he takes the action he should do to avoid you (perhaps he has only just realised you are under sail) then you actually make collision more likely (because his action will be to alter course towards you) and, as you have stopped, you are rather limited in your options!
    When he's that close he's going to have to put his helm hard over to hit me.
    One hull good, two hulls better.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    9,821

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snowleopard View Post
    When he's that close he's going to have to put his helm hard over to hit me.
    Err, and just what action would you be expecting him to take in compliance with Colregs?

    Let's say that he was doing 20 kts, you 5kts and on present course you would pass 100 yds in front of him, which he thinks is too close. If he alters course 10 degrees then he runs bang into you.

  3. #83
    toad_oftoadhall's Avatar
    toad_oftoadhall is offline Registered User
    Location : Med/Scotland/South Coast
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    3,900

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snowleopard View Post
    It doesn't involve ignoring colregs

    Off the top of my head it ignores at least two.

  4. #84
    toad_oftoadhall's Avatar
    toad_oftoadhall is offline Registered User
    Location : Med/Scotland/South Coast
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    3,900

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by timbartlett View Post
    who's going to know, and who's going to complain?
    Well someone might start a pejorative poll thread on YBW mocking the decision to ignore the collregs!

    Quote Originally Posted by timbartlett View Post
    rather than personal insults
    I hope I haven't written any personal insults, if I have point them out and I will appologise.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    29,898

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bedouin View Post
    Err, and just what action would you be expecting him to take in compliance with Colregs?

    Let's say that he was doing 20 kts, you 5kts and on present course you would pass 100 yds in front of him, which he thinks is too close. If he alters course 10 degrees then he runs bang into you.
    He's had me on his ARPA for the last 8 miles and hasn't felt the need to take avoiding action. At the last minute and without further reference to ARPA (which now shows him passing clear ahead) he suddenly changes his mind and puts the wheel hard over towards me. I don't see it.
    One hull good, two hulls better.

  6. #86
    toad_oftoadhall's Avatar
    toad_oftoadhall is offline Registered User
    Location : Med/Scotland/South Coast
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    3,900

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snowleopard View Post
    He's had me on his ARPA for the last 8 miles and hasn't felt the need to take avoiding action. At the last minute and without further reference to ARPA (which now shows him passing clear ahead) he suddenly changes his mind and puts the wheel hard over towards me. I don't see it.
    I think that's exactly the situation rule 17 tries so badly to address.

    The whole point is he hadn't seen you for those 8 miles and now he's mindlessly turning.

    I agree it doesn't seem likely but if rule 17 doesn't protect you from that situation what does it protect you from? It's hardly there to protect you from vessels making an early and obvious change of course.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    2,368

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toad_oftoadhall View Post
    I think that's exactly the situation rule 17 tries so badly to address.

    The whole point is he hadn't seen you for those 8 miles and now he's mindlessly turning.

    I agree it doesn't seem likely but if rule 17 doesn't protect you from that situation what does it protect you from? It's hardly there to protect you from vessels making an early and obvious change of course.
    Excuse me for hammering home what I think is self-evident.

    A "rule", however well designed, cannot, will not, never, ever, protect you. How can it?

    I refer back to my "golden rule", stated earlier:
    Never allow your safety to depend on the actions of others.
    It resolves the conflict at a stroke. Take the action that you consider needs to be taken to assure your own safety, having due regard for 'rules' (whatever thay may be) but not permitting blind adherence to 'rules' to over-ride common sense. It's not hard.
    Last edited by Observer; 15-10-09 at 22:15.

  8. #88
    toad_oftoadhall's Avatar
    toad_oftoadhall is offline Registered User
    Location : Med/Scotland/South Coast
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    3,900

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Observer View Post
    Excuse me for hammering home what I think is self-evident.
    A "rule", however well designed, cannot, will not, never, ever, protect you. How can it?
    I refer back to my "golden rule", stated earlier:
    It resolves the conflict at a stroke. Take the action that you consider needs to be taken to assure your own safety, having due regard for 'rules' (whatever thay may be) but not permitting blind adherence to 'rules' to over-ride common sense. It's not hard.
    It *is* self evident and I am 100pc in agreement with every word - with the slight quibble that sometimes due regard for a rule is absolutely no regard.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    2,368

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toad_oftoadhall View Post
    It *is* self evident and I am 100pc in agreement with every word - with the slight quibble that sometimes due regard for a rule is absolutely no regard.
    "Due" is the most glorious, majestically resonant and "Humpty Dumpty-esque" word (readers of Lewis Carroll will catch the allusion) in the English language. It is apt for all purposes. It has infinite meanings and a single meaning. If nothing is due, then nothing should be paid. Of course, each of us who chooses to exercise discretion in reliance upon it has to be prepared to defend and justify the meaning we place on it, in any given circumstances, against all comers. Perfect.
    Last edited by Observer; 16-10-09 at 00:13.

  10. #90
    awol's Avatar
    awol is online now Registered User
    Location : Me Edinburgh, boat JWD
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,389

    Default

    'Cos there was nought on telly last night I pulled up the latest MAIB digest for a dose of schadenfreude and found this conclusion from a close encounter between a trawling fishing boat and a ferry
    He had come to accept that the
    ferries normally passed close. Therefore,
    being the stand-on vessel and expecting
    the ferry to eventually alter course, he
    delayed his action until it was almost too
    late. The Colregs tell us that action to
    avoid collision must be substantial and
    made in good time. There is no doubt
    that the action taken by the skipper was
    substantial, but it could have been taken
    sooner. Guard against complacency
    expect the unexpected.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •