Howto un/step keel-stepped mast without crane ?

[davidej]

Quandary

I expect you are right but I think our drive to reply to time-wasting questions is more about feeding some internal pyschological need.

This is not intended to be against you or any of the other posters - just an analysis of my own soul - very apt for Good Friday!

[RivalRedwing]

The prime question that the OP should be asking himself is: "if I go for a home-constructed option, how am I going to justify this route if it goes wrong during the lift and someone is unfortunately hurt" (or as I often say when putting pragmatic H&S systems in place... could I look the coroner in the eye and say that there was nothing I could have done to prevent the accident to Fred Blogs, it was unforseen.....)

[Quandary]

Quandary

I expect you are right but I think our drive to reply to time-wasting questions is more about feeding some internal pyschological need.

This is not intended to be against you or any of the other posters - just an analysis of my own soul - very apt for Good Friday!

Perhaps its just the modern substitute for conversation?
I read the forum for years without any urge to post, since I started interfering I have done it more and more, but you are now making me question my motivation.

[doug748]

The method suggested by Sighmoon & Earlybird is just fine. In the the Merchant Navy (when we had one) this was known as a Union Purchase, albeit rigged from derricks.

Simple, safe & easily controlled procedure which has worked well for many many years.

I can see that Maxi.
The problem with short yard cranes is that the pull is not directly where it should be (as Strathglass has pointed out), the upper sheave knocks your masthead gear off, the hook scrapes your mast and the wires then impart grease over the lot. You then get the thing angled in the deck and have to resort to brutish tactics.
A telescopic truck mouted job is the ideal and you can hoist using a halyard from the masthead. However, in this case, you solution seems just the job.
Just a thought, if the boat (ashore) were alongside a house, wall or building you would be halfway there.

[BlowingOldBoots]

From the OP question: -

Is there a way to un/step a keel stepped mast on a 35 foot sloop without the use of a crane ? (Note : please take this as a given, not a debating point - I would surely use a crane if I could, I'm not completely daft.)

The OP is asking for assistance on a specific point. Of course a crane would be better but the OP has stated that its not an option. One can assume the boat can not be moved to where a crane is required based on the posting.

To Quandary: Yes, we use trained operators, with certified equipment.

iw395 states it clearly

Perhaps if you explained further why a crane is not an option, we could help.

[DownWest]

My method: Arrange derrick off back of pick-up made of two 6mt. square tubes. Hinged at tailgate with adjustable brace forward, for reach ( 1 hrs work).Park at edge of commercial fishing dock which has the height needed from water. Boat was a ketch with 50ft main in wood. Winched the masts off the deck and lowered them in. Two workers and two tea ladies. The only error was to practice on the mizzen, by which time the tide had come in enough that we were short of height for the main. A long lunch sorted that out. Though the dock had cranes, the hassle to get permission would have taken days.Plus they had never done it before. Total cost: Nil, as I had all the tube etc to hand.
I had to lift the main back up a bit as he had forgotten the coin.. At no time were we worried or at risk. Also where we were doing it had not heard of elf & s. nor was there any insurance to consider.
Andrew

[Grajan]

The problem isnt lifting it, well it is, but it can be done. the major problem is CONTROLLING the mast as it comes up through the deck especially if afloat, as that length of lever could/can cause major structural damage and you are only looking at minimal movement at the lifting point for the base of the mast to swing out and do horrendous damage to the yacht let alone damage that could be done to the person(s) guiding / guying the mast
I professionally stepped masts for many years in yachts up to30+ft manually, and it was terrifing, fortunately we had cut our teeth on smaller craft and were well aware of the pitfalls and never experienced a mishap, well nothing bad enough that we had to "confess" to an owner!
I dare say that under dire circumstances you might consider taking the risk but in my book, without the experience, a very foolhardy move.

[Boo2]

I don't think Boo has bought a boat yet, so this may be a theoretical exercise.

Correct, I am still investigating the theory of buying a boat :-)

Fwiw, the replies I've received here are dissuading me from contemplating using anything other than a crane to unstep the mast from a boat. This will lead to further theoretical enquiries in due course...

Boo2

[Boo2]

I believe Boo is a beginner who is contemplating buying his first boat with the eventual aim of doing a world girdling single handed passage in it.

The firm plan is to do a round trip of the UK, hopefully starting next April and continuing until Sept that year. I guess most sailing boats parked in UK marinas would be OK (ish) for this trip.

"World girdling" is not part of my decided plan, but I would like to retrace a journey I made when I was very young and travel from Holland to Thailand via suez. The boat I am looking for will do both these trips because I can't afford to buy and fit up 2 boats. This is the main restriction on what boat I buy just because it is a more demanding journey.

He has sought advice before and caution has been urged but he seems very determined. He has a limited budget and has asked various questions about potential problems in the boats he has been considering, I presume this is one of these.

Yep - actually the potential problem relates to a possible mooring I am considering this time, not the boat itself.

My caution is influenced by this and his possible lack of experience.
I would still advise anyone against handling big deck stepped masts without a very controllable crane or a travel hoist jib.

Determination is necessary but caution is good, too

I will most likely never unstep a keel stepped mast without a crane and operator, I was just checking what the limits are.

Boo2

[davidej]

[QUOTE=Boo2;2472259I will most likely never unstep a keel stepped mast without a crane and operator, I was just checking what the limits are.

Boo2[/QUOTE]

Some might class this as time wasting .. but then

we are not complled to read or reply!