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  1. #1
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    Default Santander to Madeira

    Okey Dokey

    A good friend of mine is having their boat delivered from Galway to Madeira.
    It's not actually his boat, he will be the first mate (posh big game fishing term for the one that hangs on for dear life once a Blue Marlin is by the boat).
    It's a Rodman 1250 that is fully coded and will be used for Big Game charter on arrival.

    Trouble is, it's got itself stuck in Santander after the delivery skipper did a bunk with the fuel / expenses money and the ships docs!

    He's asked me to finish the trip for him.

    I am fairly experienced in long distance deliveries so that isn't a problem.
    But, I don't happen to have any North Spain to Madeira charts available to start to passage plan before heading down there once the docs are sorted out.

    The boat is very capable, but I am not enormously familiar with them.
    Fuel Consumption (I guess it has 2 x Volvo TAMD 74Ps as it is a 2002) through the range?
    Distances between legs of the journey.

    The boat is carrying an additional 1000 litres on deck over and above the standard tanks which I believe is 2 x 650litres.

    Without a chart, I am guessing that we can fast cruise at about 20 to 22 knots from Satander to La Coruna, La Coruna to Lisbon and then drop to the most economical speed (8 knots???) for the 500ish nm run to Madeira.

    Anyone with the right charts and knowledge of that or similar boats think that sounds about right?

    Don't worry, proper passage plan and in passage fuel plans will be done in addition to just asking on here!

    Tom

    PS: Steady NE F4/5 trade winds will most likely be running for the duration

  2. #2
    Hurricane's Avatar
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    You dont have to go up as far as Lisbon before your crossing.
    Cascais is a really useful final port - good fuel and berthing to wait for weather.

    These are the distances measured from my Memory Map charts
    520 nm from Cascais to Funchal
    or 493 nm from Portimao (Algarve) to Funchal if you want a slightly shorter crossing but it a long way from Cascais to Portimao
    or similarly 510 from Villamora to Funchal

    Hazards on the way are the Gorringe Ridge rises to a depth of 20 metres so may cause some confused sea - probably find comments in almanacs/pilots.
    Also the island to the NE of Maderia - Porto Santo.

    8 knots seems about right (maybe a bit less) - I'd use the passages from Santander to Cascais to check the actual fuel burn though.

    As we all know, dropping to displacement speeds significantly increases the range. I dont bother with single engine displacement speeds. I'd have to do some tests to be confident but I think our Princess could manage that crossing without the extra fuel load. That is a Princess with a normal range of 300 miles managing 700/800 miles at displacement speed. I've checked these figures by topping the tanks out and then topping out at the destination but good weather is also very important. Our electronics imply that she would do some 1500 miles on a single engine at 5 or 6 knots but I've never checked it out.
    Last edited by Hurricane; 06-07-10 at 11:40.

  3. #3
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    Great help, thanks Hurricane!

    I've since established that the main tank is 1300ltr.
    We'll have a total of 2300ltr onboard

  4. #4
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    Good luck with the trip Tom,

    Is the displacement thing about lack of fuel supply locations or pure economics?

    If its economics, calculate a plan B regarding fuel supply locations, just in case the crew changes their mind about flopping around in an unstabilised, light displacement boat in open waters. The new owner may wish to trade nausea for stability...
    Last edited by AndieMac; 07-07-10 at 05:02.

  5. #5
    Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndieMac View Post
    Good luck with the trip Tom,

    Is the displacement thing about lack of fuel supply locations or pure economics?

    If its economics, calculate a plan B regarding fuel supply locations, just in case the crew changes their mind about flopping around in an unstabilised, light displacement boat in open waters. The new owner may wish to trade nausea for stability...
    I dont think he's got much of an option - the passage will be in open waters.

    I know what you mean though - with help from several members of this forum, I took our Princess beyond her normal operating range by running at displacement speed for about 10 hours before finishing off the passage at full planing speed.
    The trip was from Menorca to Tunisia. Throughout the passage, we ALWAYS had the option of diverting to Sardinia if we (or the boat) couldnt manage the conditions at displacement speed.

    Tom doesnt have this luxury though - another reason, IMO, that he should do some displacement passages on the run from Santander to Cascais.

    For those interested, here's a chartlet of his proposed passage.

    Last edited by Hurricane; 07-07-10 at 10:36.

  6. #6
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    Wow

    Gorringe Ridge looks hugely "Fishey", wonder if I can tempt the guys to spend a couple of hours trolling here.

    Thanks for that Hurricane, really useful info.

    Ben Stevens from RBS has kindly given me some fuel figures from 27kts down to 13 kts and leaving a 35% margin for error the amount we are carrying will give us plenty for the open water shot if running at about 18 knots. According to his figures, we'll only burn about 1,450 litres over about 28 hours duration. Carrying a total of 2,300 litres we can always drop to displacement speed if even leaving 35% margin for error is incorrect.

    Thanks again, really helpful stuff.

    Tom

  7. #7
    Hurricane's Avatar
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    I wouldnt run at low planing speeds.
    IMO you either go at a good sensible 23/24/25 knots (whatever is the most economical) or at displacement speed (sub 8 knots)
    Interestingly, our MTUs are more effecient at 25 knots than at 21/22 knots - there's an extra stage turbo that kicks in.
    IMO at 13/15 knots, you are wasting fuel with the boat continually trying to "climb out of the hole".
    Also remember the extra load of fuel thats being carried.
    I'd try and use the extra fuel at displacement speed then with (say) 250 miles to go and full tanks you would know that you could do it at full planing speed. I'd also want the weather to be well and truely on my side as well.
    With this strategy, you could also work it that you have enough fuel to return to the mainland as a contingency.

    BTW - I've just measured the distance from the Gorringe Ridge to the track I posted above - 15 miles so you wouldnt want to detour just for a bit of fishing - more important things to consider.

  8. #8
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    Hi Hurricane

    These are the figures from Ben at RBS.
    Obviously a large pinch of salt is needed, but they are good for guidance.

    They are based on the 1250, fitted with 2 x Volvo TAMD74's.

    122 LPH at 27 kts

    80 LPH at 22 Kts

    50 LPH at 18 Kts

    36 LPH at 13 kts


    The difference in overall consumption between 13 kts and 18 kts is negligeable so at least 18 knots OR full displacement. Fuel consumption V range does rise considerably above 18 knots though so I suspect this will be our preferred running speed, but the coastal legs will address that for sure.

    As for the Gorringe?!
    We wouldn't divert there as we past by, but would consider making it a waypoint and part of the passage. By doing this we would only add just one or two miles to the total journey. This is the sort of thing that mad big game fishermen do and is fairly normal practise to stop to see if there are any record Marlin or Tuna hanging around very remote, never before fished mid Atlantic sea mounts.

  9. #9
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    Aim to make the landfall at Porto Santo. You can seee the island from 50 miles away. Good harbour with friendly natives. Info http://www.noonsite.com/Countries/Madeira/PortoSanto and http://www.worldmarineguide.com/port...d-boatyard.htm

    I'll be there in October/November.
    "Beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy" B. Franklin

  10. #10
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    Standing by for report and lots of pics Tom.......

    ps: Don't forget courses on charts (if possible) I reckon they add a considerable effect to a cruise report.

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