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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    14

    Default Re: cruise ships flags

    A red "bravo" flag flying from a mast may indeed indicate "I am taking in or discharging or carrying dangerous goods." (Originally used by the Royal Navy specifically for military explosives.) as specified in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...e_signal_flags .

    A red flag hanging some 10 feet above the water line below the bow of the ship is a warning to small craft. Think about it. A cruise ship could have 16 lines fore and aft holding it to a pier. One line at the bow is not going to be able to move the ship. I see cruise ships docked all the time with a red flag below the bow and there is not a tug boat within a 3 hour sail so there is no way, absolutely no way, this bow line with a red flag is used for towing.
    Last edited by peggyt1243; 15-10-19 at 10:19. Reason: correct tense

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Troon, Scotland
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: cruise ships flags

    Quote Originally Posted by peggyt1243 View Post
    A red "bravo" flag flying from a mast may indeed indicate "I am taking in or discharging or carrying dangerous goods." (Originally used by the Royal Navy specifically for military explosives.) as specified in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...e_signal_flags .

    A red flag hanging some 10 feet above the water line below the bow of the ship is a warning to small craft. Think about it. A cruise ship could have 16 lines fore and aft holding it to a pier. One line at the bow is not going to be able to move the ship. I see cruise ships docked all the time with a red flag below the bow and there is not a tug boat within a 3 hour sail so there is no way, absolutely no way, this bow line with a red flag is used for towing.
    Ok, apparently you know better from your window watching. I know nothing apparently, despite having worked on one of the largest passenger liners in the world for the last 15 years and being a master mariner. (Incidentally, we do not lower a tow line as it is not a requirement for passenger ships) Peggy, I bow to your far superior knowledge - maybe I will start dangling a flag on a tow wire from the bow of my ship incase any little yachties decide to be so silly as to scrape around my bow and possibly endanger their mast. But why use a boring Bravo flag - a bright multicoloured affair would be far more noticeable. That being said, if a yacht hasnít notice the humongous 9 deck high chunk of protruding steel that would be my bow, then I doubt they will notice a little flag! Come on, you need to get your facts straight! What you are suggesting is ludicrous!

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    14

    Default Re: cruise ships flags

    The original question pertained to passenger ships, not cargo ships or tankers. I doubt very much that a tug boat would pull a burning passenger ship away from a pier because the first priority would be to get the passengers off. I agree that ships containing dangerous goods could very well have a steel tow line on the water side of a ship (not the berth side) but passenger ships do not have steel lines. The question pertained specifically about the red flags hanging below the bow of passenger ships and those flags are warning flags similar to the ones they sometimes put directly on the mooring lines. I guess we will have to disagree on this one.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Troon, Scotland
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: cruise ships flags

    Finally you have got there. The fire tow wire is not a requirement for passenger ships, hence why the majority of pax ships don't use one! None of our company ships use them. I have been on one passenger ship that had wires, not ropes, but due to the safety implications, this is rare as you correctly point out. Some companies - I have noticed celebrity and msc, use fire wires in Port. This is purely a choice by those companies and once again I stress, it is not a requirement. The last thing I would want should my ship catch fire, is for someone to tow me off the Berth! If you see another passenger ship with the red flag at the bow, look closely and you'll see the connecting point for a tug at the end of the wire on which the flag flies from.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    14

    Default Re: cruise ships flags

    I have already looked closely. There is no connecting point. The line simply holds a red flag above the water to warn small craft. There is one Celebrity ship that never has one of these flags and that is the Edge. Due to its bow shape there is absolutely no need for a warning flag.

    Like I said, we will have to disagree. Tankers may have fire wires but passenger ships with red flags hanging below the bow are simply warning flags.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Troon, Scotland
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: cruise ships flags

    So why don't any of my company ships fly one? And why haven't any yachts snapped their masts on my bow? I find it deeply saddening that you can't accept you are wrong, even when someone who has spent a lot of time in the industry is telling you the facts. You're reasoning is nothing but rubbish. Passenger ships DO NOT fly warning flags from the bow for silly yachties. Utter rot

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    14

    Default Re: cruise ships flags

    I see them frequently flying below the bow of passenger ships moored where small craft such as launches come and go frequently during the day. These small craft are entering and departing a basin and must go under the mooring lines of cruise ships. The flags and bow lines could not ever be used for tugs because there are no tugs in the port. None.

    We are obviously referring to different bow lines and you sir are doubling down on "fire wires" which are ridiculous for cruise ships; simply not relevant and incorrect. Let us end this discussion.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Troon, Scotland
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: cruise ships flags

    No one said anything about bow lines being used as tow lines. Mooring lines and towing lines are totally different. Yes end the discussion as you blatantly have no idea what you are talking about. Keep looking out your window and waving at the pretty ships - I wonít wave back thatís for sure!

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    14

    Default Re: cruise ships flags

    Ah but I do know what I am talking about. You are not talking about the line that hangs perpendicular down from the bow and has a red flag close to the water line. It is not a mooring line and it is not a tow line, it is a line specifically to hold a warning flag for small vessels that will pass close by. To suggest such a line would be used by a tug is ludicrous.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Long Beach. CA.
    Posts
    2,793

    Default Re: cruise ships flags

    Quote Originally Posted by cuppateatime View Post
    Finally you have got there. The fire tow wire is not a requirement for passenger ships, hence why the majority of pax ships don't use one! None of our company ships use them. I have been on one passenger ship that had wires, not ropes, but due to the safety implications, this is rare as you correctly point out. Some companies - I have noticed celebrity and msc, use fire wires in Port. This is purely a choice by those companies and once again I stress, it is not a requirement. The last thing I would want should my ship catch fire, is for someone to tow me off the Berth! If you see another passenger ship with the red flag at the bow, look closely and you'll see the connecting point for a tug at the end of the wire on which the flag flies from.
    I was just going to say Carnival use them in Long Beach California.

    W.
    Last edited by PilotWolf; 17-10-19 at 03:30.
    .

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