Ensign Etiquette

[Bosun Higgs]

Sorry but RN reserve has nothing to do with it either. You are correct in saying that Blue ensigns may be worn by any number of yacht clubs provided they have the correct permit. The Royal Naval Sailing Association happens to be one of the clubs which has been afforded this 'privilege'. Anyone or any rank who has served with the RN or RN reserve can become a member of the RNSA and apply for a permit to fly a blue ensign if they have a boat that meets the size criteria (you can't put one on your dinghy!) , just as anyone who is a member of the Royal Western etc etc can apply for a permit to fly the blue.

There are two things that sadden me in this thread.

One is that there seems to be a huge inverted snobbery about what colour ensign people fly. The UK has an enormously rich and varied history, and lots of traditions and practices have been evolved and handed down over the centuries. I would rather see the different coloured ensigns in the context of that than any 'snob' value. I am proud to serve in the RN, and I am proud that the RNSA has been given a warrant to allow its members to fly Blue Ensigns. I am saddened by those who think its some sort of one-upmanship, I fly a Red Ensign sometimes - and I am equally proud of it and what it stands for.

Therefore I am equally saddened by those who think that they can declare that they are not British and think that they can put whatever they like up on the back end of their boat. People might be proud to be part of Cornwall or Scotland or wherever, (I have lots of Welsh blood in me and so identify completely with the perceived arrogance of the 'English' and London centred UK), but to refuse to fly a Red Ensign seems a betrayal of our United Kingdom. Put a Cornish or Welsh or Scottish or whatever flag up at the cross-trees, but put the LEGALLY correct RED or BLUE ensign on the back of your boat and get over it....

I dont believe you are right about the reserve, if it still exists. In the old days an undefaced blue ensign was flown by a ship captained by a reserve officer so that and grey funnel line vessel could recognise the availability of support if necessary.

See http://www.fotw.net/flags/gb-blenr.html#reg

[Ubergeekian]

During daylight when at sea in sight of another vessel you MUST fly your ensign, the "saltair" is not a recognised ensign and should not be flown from the jackstaff.

Check the http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content...filesize=17067. In case you haven't time ...

1. There is no obligation to fly an ensign unless entering or leaving a foreign port, entering or leaving a British port (if over 50 tones) or on request from a warship (Part 1, Section 1, Clause 5, Paragraph 2).
2. It's a saltire.
3. You can fly anything you like from the jackstaff, or indeed from anywhere else, as long as it's not a recognised ensign (Part 1, Section 1, Clause 4, Paragraph 1, Sub-paragraph (a)) and as long as you (also or instead) display an ensign as required.
4. The saltire, like the scottish merchant flag, is not a recognised ensign.
5. Caledonian Macbrayne ferries have been flying a triangular saltire at the jackstaff for as long as I can remember.

[john_morris_uk]

I dont believe you are right about the reserve, if it still exists. In the old days an undefaced blue ensign was flown by a ship captained by a reserve officer so that and grey funnel line vessel could recognise the availability of support if necessary.

See http://www.fotw.net/flags/gb-blenr.html#reg

Interesting bit of history - but I don't think that those regulations from the 50's and 60's still apply. Never heard mention of it on any of the bridges of warships I have been on recently - and I suspect that the regs have been superseded. You never know I could be wrong though and I will ask my current boss what he thinks as he is a 4 Ring Captain RN and keen yachtsman.

[Ubergeekian]

Whilst your statement, about 99% of the population, is correct that in itself does not make it a union jack. It just means that 99% of the population are wrong.

Language evolves over time, and there is no reason to bind 99% of the population by a particular technical meaning within the navy.

Do cars have number plates?

[Ubergeekian]

One is that there seems to be a huge inverted snobbery about what colour ensign people fly. The UK has an enormously rich and varied history, and lots of traditions and practices have been evolved and handed down over the centuries. I would rather see the different coloured ensigns in the context of that than any 'snob' value. I am proud to serve in the RN, and I am proud that the RNSA has been given a warrant to allow its members to fly Blue Ensigns. I am saddened by those who think its some sort of one-upmanship, I fly a Red Ensign sometimes - and I am equally proud of it and what it stands for.

It seems to be very common now for motor boats to fly a blue ensign as a matter of course, and I can't believe that they are all owned by RNSA members. I don't know why they do it - perhaps it matches those huge blue canvas sheds they all seem to have on the back nowadays, but I suspect that there is a bit of snobbery in there too. Nothing to do with those actually entitled to fly blue, of course, but the feeling of being condescended to does tend to rub off a bit, and you may find yourselves unjustly associated with the imposters.

People might be proud to be part of Cornwall or Scotland or wherever, (I have lots of Welsh blood in me and so identify completely with the perceived arrogance of the 'English' and London centred UK), but to refuse to fly a Red Ensign seems a betrayal of our United Kingdom.

I'm all for diversity of ensigns myself. I have always flown scottish ensigns (well, scottish merchant flags, technically) because I am scottish, my boats are based in Scotland and while I am not particularly nationalist - and certainly not Nationalist - I identify as Scottish far more strongly than I do as British. I don't feel that my decision not to fly a UK ensign "betrays the United Kingdom" any more than my decision not to fly the EU or NATO flags betrays these organisations. If a fellow scot wishes to fly a UK ensign then that's absolutely, totally 100% fine with me. I shall do so myself when I take Jumblie abroad (the Isle of Man doesn't count).

[Ubergeekian]

Interesting bit of history - but I don't think that those regulations from the 50's and 60's still apply. Never heard mention of it on any of the bridges of warships I have been on recently - and I suspect that the regs have been superseded. You never know I could be wrong though and I will ask my current boss what he thinks as he is a 4 Ring Captain RN and keen yachtsman.

Twenty years ago I used to sail the Jouster (no reasonable offer refused) with a chap who had driven a minesweeper around the place, and who was in the reserve. He used to claim that he could fly a blue ensign on the strength of that ... or could have, if the boat had been a bit longer. Six point seven metres isn't enough!

[Searush]

It seems to be very common now for motor boats to fly a blue ensign as a matter of course, and I can't believe that they are all owned by RNSA members. I don't know why they do it - perhaps it matches those huge blue canvas sheds they all seem to have on the back nowadays, but I suspect that there is a bit of snobbery in there too. Nothing to do with those actually entitled to fly blue, of course, but the feeling of being condescended to does tend to rub off a bit, and you may find yourselves unjustly associated with the imposters.
(snip)

The key criteria to flying a Blue Ensign (defaced or not);

Must be a registered British ship (thus over 7m long)
Member of entitled organisation is aboard
Possession of relevant warrant (must also be aboard)
Relevant organisation's burgee should be at masthead (or most senior position available)


These rules are charming anachronisms that change from time to time & are a throwback to the fondly remembered days when Great Britain was a Maritime power to be reckoned with. I like that, which is why I choose to fulfill them all on Sea Rush. As already stated there is a fine of up to £5,000 plus confiscation of any illegally flown ensign or flag that can be enforced, but to my knowledge never has been. Maybe it should . . .

[john_morris_uk]

Twenty years ago I used to sail the Jouster (no reasonable offer refused) with a chap who had driven a minesweeper around the place, and who was in the reserve. He used to claim that he could fly a blue ensign on the strength of that ... or could have, if the boat had been a bit longer. Six point seven metres isn't enough!

Hmm - doesn't mean he was correct though!

[alant]

Allegedly that was a cost saving ploy by Sam Pepys. Ensigns use to be displayed 24/7, but by flying them only in daylight hours they last twice as long. Crafty move.

He may just have been using common sense.

Even SWMBO, who sees all, cannot see in the dark or distinguish colours (hence the saying "all cats are grey in the dark").

[LordMacDonald]

Good Morning