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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbreeze View Post
    I can only imagine (hope) that they have simply gone with the one who offered the most money with the sole intention of getting as much to pay back to the ransom payers as possible. They are not stupid people and otherwise I don't think they would have chosen a moronic rag like the mail through which to tell their "story"...
    OK so lets see if I've got this straight. The British Govt doesn't pay ransoms and it doesn't send in the gunboats either (or the SAS come to that). But, if a hostage (preferably British in line with Somali risk assessment) pleads he/she doesn't have any cash, he can magic up some sizeable dosh after a bit of chivvying and do a plane drop (twice for good measure), and no harm is done since some Daily Rag back home will pick up the tab.

    Now, how do you say that in Somali?

    Not exactly what I'd call standing up to the pirates. The consequences for the cruising community are likely to extend far beyond the Chandlers unless and until someone really does take a stand so that the risks to the pirates outweigh the benefits.

    Or perhaps the Dailies should just pay the pirates direct without messing about with hostages?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteE View Post
    Not exactly what I'd call standing up to the pirates. The consequences for the cruising community are likely to extend far beyond the Chandlers unless and until someone really does take a stand so that the risks to the pirates outweigh the benefits.
    On another tack, i'm concerned what kind of state Somalia is in for folk to risk it all to take the hostages. Since there's no Oil there I don't suppose the UN / US etc are interested in getting involved

  3. #63
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    i'm concerned what kind of state Somalia is in for folk to risk it all

    As mentioned in the 'should a rescue have been attempted' thread on Scuttlebutt, try reading the book ( ignore the film ) 'Black Hawk Down'.

    The Somali mindset is horrifying; not a single brain cell is directed towards improving their lot by work or anything resembling it, most are out of their skulls on the cheaply available drug 'Khat', posession of an AK-47 or even better an RPG is all that's of interest and they are utterly merciless.

    In short, if ever a place was begging for nuclear bomb testing...

  4. #64
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    Since there's no Oil there I don't suppose the UN / US etc are interested in getting involved
    The Somali mindset is horrifying; not a single brain cell is directed towards improving their lot by work or anything resembling it, most are out of their skulls on the cheaply available drug 'Khat', posession of an AK-47 or even better an RPG is all that's of interest and they are utterly merciless.

    In short, if ever a place was begging for nuclear bomb testing...
    @Fire99 - I understand what you are suggesting, that we won't help directly because we don't believe it will benefit us directly. Of course this couldn't be further from the truth.

    There is a strong UN presence in Somalia and there has been for some time. The organisation has been working with the African Union to build infrastructure and tackle the social problems within the country. Sadly it is the other major governments like Britain et al who are not contributing enough to assist the UN and AU. Paying off ransoms and blowing a few skiffs out the water is not the long-term solution to the problem. The country needs to be built up from the inside out. The state of Somalia affects us directly, and I mean economically, not just as sailors, so it is our responsibility to assist in this humanitarian crisis. Without our direct support this problem will never go away. Piracy will get worse, ransoms will continue to get paid, warlords will get richer and the cost of our goods being delivered through the GoA will continue to go up.

    @Seajet - do you really believe that the mindset to which you allude is typical of the nation itself? The pirates make up a tiny, tiny minority of the population. The rest are innocent people either being slaughtered or having to flee their own country: one million and counting. Can you even begin to comprehend what those people are going through? Many have fled to Yemen, which is where you find Qat, and when I was in Yemen earlier this year it was the local population high on the drug, not the Somalis. They were too busy trying to establish themselves in a foreign country, earning a living.

    I assume the comment about testing nuclear bombs was said merely as a wind-up. That's pretty weak.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonboy View Post
    @Fire99 - I understand what you are suggesting, that we won't help directly because we don't believe it will benefit us directly. Of course this couldn't be further from the truth.

    There is a strong UN presence in Somalia and there has been for some time. The organisation has been working with the African Union to build infrastructure and tackle the social problems within the country. Sadly it is the other major governments like Britain et al who are not contributing enough to assist the UN and AU. Paying off ransoms and blowing a few skiffs out the water is not the long-term solution to the problem. The country needs to be built up from the inside out. The state of Somalia affects us directly, and I mean economically, not just as sailors, so it is our responsibility to assist in this humanitarian crisis. Without our direct support this problem will never go away. Piracy will get worse, ransoms will continue to get paid, warlords will get richer and the cost of our goods being delivered through the GoA will continue to go up.
    Yeah, I did generalise a touch by 'bundling' the UN in with the major powers. Perhaps wrongly. It really is a criticism of the likes of the UK and US and how they select their countries to 'liberate'.

    I hear and agree with what you say. I just think Somalia needs serious help. There needs to be a balance in protecting shipping from piracy and there is an element of 'live by the sword, die by the sword' in that if you're prepared to hold a gun to someone's head, then sadly be prepared to face the consequences.
    On the other hand, I don't doubt the crisis the people of Somalia are in and that seems to be too easily overlooked.

  6. #66
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    The report on Mogadishu on TV (can't remember which side) was pretty revealing about the state of the country - maybe Mussolini started it all off in the late thirties - I remember Haille Sellasi (Sp?) 0f Ethiopia, standing up to him; we took the Express then!
    'Reinstate MadFrankie'

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire99 View Post
    It really is a criticism of the likes of the UK and US and how they select their countries to 'liberate'.
    The UK hardly ever/never goes anywhere without the US.
    The US is in no hurry to return to Somalia - the 'Black Hawk Down' trauma is still too fresh.
    With present US commitments in Iraq & Afghanistan, it would just be one more place for GIs to die.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guapa View Post
    The UK hardly ever/never goes anywhere without the US.
    The US is in no hurry to return to Somalia - the 'Black Hawk Down' trauma is still too fresh.
    With present US commitments in Iraq & Afghanistan, it would just be one more place for GIs to die.
    "Semi-retired naval-type person doing some political consulting (foreign & defence policy)"
    Hmmm and that is the sort of stuff you advise peeps on?
    Pray, dear boy, who is it you are consulting for? Is it "us" or the EU? I note from other stuff that you have blogged or posted that you travel to Brussels a lot, so would it be the EU?
    Stu

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by skipper_stu View Post
    "Semi-retired naval-type person doing some political consulting (foreign & defence policy)"
    Hmmm and that is the sort of stuff you advise peeps on?
    Pray, dear boy, who is it you are consulting for? Is it "us" or the EU? I note from other stuff that you have blogged or posted that you travel to Brussels a lot, so would it be the EU?
    Stu
    darling - don't pretend you care

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guapa View Post
    The UK hardly ever/never goes anywhere without the US.
    The US is in no hurry to return to Somalia - the 'Black Hawk Down' trauma is still too fresh.
    With present US commitments in Iraq & Afghanistan, it would just be one more place for GIs to die.
    Well i'm sure if there were more financial incentives, they would change their tune. Saving lives does not seem top of the aggenda in any of the current wars.

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