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  1. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by timbartlett View Post
    That sums up the problem. Because you have grossly underestimated the range of the ship you are planning to take "immediate evasive action" when you are still, very clearly in the compulsory-stand-on phase of the encounter.
    You have missed the point Tim.

    because I have grossly under estimated the range that puts us in absolute agreement with your col reg interpretation .

    I would have already taken evasive action at twice the photo range.

    The range I perceive to be 1/2 mile doubled is my1 mile .
    You are telling me that my 1 mile is actually in excess of 6 miles ( double the photo which you say is 4 miles= 8 miles).

    In effect I am taking evasive action at 8 miles , not in contravention of any col regs, debate sorted , happy may we part .

    In the interests of moving also happy to accept there is loads of room here too, it was always my under estimating of distances that was an issue.


    Here what I believed to be a shadow from the sail is probably a shadow from a passing aeroplane wing or large seagul.

    .

  2. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAKA View Post
    You have missed the point Tim.

    because I have grossly under estimated the range that puts us in absolute agreement with your col reg interpretation .

    I would have already taken evasive action at twice the photo range.

    The range I perceive to be 1/2 mile doubled is my1 mile .
    You are telling me that my 1 mile is actually in excess of 6 miles ( double the photo which you say is 4 miles= 8 miles).

    In effect I am taking evasive action at 8 miles , not in contravention of any col regs, debate sorted , happy may we part .

    In the interests of moving also happy to accept there is loads of room here too, it was always my under estimating of distances that was an issue.


    Here what I believed to be a shadow from the sail is probably a shadow from a passing aeroplane wing or large seagul.

    I think Vela's skipper can be exonerated of all blame because he (or she) could not possibly have known what the grey object was as it appears not to be wearing any sort of an ensign.

    PS I hope you don't mind but I love that second picture so much that I have borrowed it to use as a background on my computer. Obviously I will cease using it immediately if you object.

  3. #233
    davidej is offline Registered User
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    I really need to get a life but I have just read most of this record-breaking thread.

    It is the heading -do you ignore colregs - that get us steamed up.

    the poll should be

    when you might possibly be in a cossing situation wth commercial traffic, do you:

    1 take early action (such as a turn to port) so that rule 17 never applies
    2 hold you course until rule 17 applies and then obey it
    3 hold your course until rule 17 applies and then disobey it

    I hope no one (mobo or raggie) would vote for 3

    A lot of the confusion (IMveryHO) seens to stem from experience crossing the Channel. Much of it is a TSS and the crossing vessel (be it commercial, mobo or raggie ) is the give way vessel no matter what side the other one is on.
    davidej

  4. #234
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    Re "A lot of the confusion (IMveryHO) seens to stem from experience crossing the Channel. Much of it is a TSS and the crossing vessel (be it commercial, mobo or raggie ) is the give way vessel no matter what side the other one is on."

    There is indeed a lot of confusion - and still it goes on. Being in a TSS in a lane does not bestow upon a vessel any rights that it did not already have.

    In a crossing situation, with a power driven vessel on the stbd bow crossing from stbd to port, if I am in a lane and risk of collision exists - I am the give way vessel.

    The power driven vessel crossing the lane is the stand on vessel.

    Same applies to any other kind of vessel. "Not to Impede" is something poorly understood.
    CC

  5. #235
    davidej is offline Registered User
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    Shows how humble my O was!
    davidej

  6. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Cautious View Post
    . "Not to Impede" is something poorly understood.
    CC
    Would it be fair to say this means that a crossing craft should avoid the risk of collision occuring but if it does exist then the normal rules apply?

  7. #237
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    fishing vessels, sailing vessels and vessels less than 20m in length must not impede the safe passage of a vessel using a lane.

    This means that they must indeed avoid the risk of collision occurring, and should actually take action before the colregs come into effect. A slightly troublesome concept to grasp - but in laymans terms - as you say - avoid the risk of collision developing, just stay out of the way - early.

    once risk of collision exists normal rules apply, but the "not to impede" vessel is still required "not to impede"

    CC
    Last edited by Capt Cautious; 27-01-11 at 22:33.

  8. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by benjenbav View Post
    PS I hope you don't mind but I love that second picture so much that I have borrowed it to use as a background on my computer. Obviously I will cease using it immediately if you object.
    I m pleased you spotted the significance of the second photo, it just about summarizes all 500 posts from both scuttlebutts and here in one photo.....

    You probably spotted both sailing boats in the first photo here


    Yacht 1756 is just outside the 6 mile limit so he is not compelled to stand on.

    Yacht Vela has just crept inside the 6 mile limit , it takes about 20 minutes to prepare to tack........

    Move seating cushions from one side to another, check the stove gimbals are free , wedge your cup of tea somewhere and locate the winch handle.

    Anyway too late for our hero Vela who stands on.

    Now photo 2 as you have so astutely noticed yacht 1756 has now helmed to port being safely outside the 6 mile limit.
    Vela maintains his stand on status in RYA text book fashion until he safely clears the stern and resumes course.

    Classic, and proof the RYA interpretation is correct, well earned respect for the scuttlebutts who have been patient enough to teach me how to more accurately estimate distances, previously I had interpreted this same incident as a near miss.
    Last edited by DAKA; 28-01-11 at 09:22.
    .

  9. #239
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    The sheeting angle hasn't changed on 1756L - and I deduce from that that neither has the course - he hasn't turned to port ... the camera angle has changed significantly though!

    Yacht Vela - or 1135L (as I can read the sail number!) is picking up a bacon sarnie as they ran out of gas and did an imeadiate Panpan which got an excellent response from the nearest suitable vessel - so they needed to get that close, otherwise the bread would have got soggy.

  10. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireball View Post
    The sheeting angle hasn't changed on 1756L - and I deduce from that that neither has the course - he hasn't turned to port ... the camera angle has changed significantly though!

    Yacht Vela - or 1135L (as I can read the sail number!) is picking up a bacon sarnie as they ran out of gas and did an imeadiate Panpan which got an excellent response from the nearest suitable vessel - so they needed to get that close, otherwise the bread would have got soggy.
    Fortunately being COLREGS 'challanged' is not the sole preserve of us raggies as demonstrated in the below account from another thread

    I pulled into Waterford Harbour to refuel and was on my way out when I saw a trawler coming towards me. I panicked and quickly moved to the right of it without noticing a Bayliner 2052 coming towards me at 25 Knots. He only saw me at the last second and tried to turn but ended up hitting my sideways. Both boats came off with a long list of damages.

    I know what you’re thinking. How do you hit another boat in the wide open water? But you’d be surprised what you can miss when there’s a big trawler in the way!

    The collision left the unfortunate Bayliner owner with a broken arm which I suffered my second cut to my head of the summer. We were both towed back into Waterford, and as the owner of the Bayliner was getting into the ambulance he said to me, “I hope you’ve got good insurance.”

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