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Thread: Beware of E Bay

  1. #51
    Join Date
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    Default Possibly ...

    .... the Radio Equipment and Telecommunications Terminal Equipment Regulations 2000, provides the RA will the relevant obligations and powers. But just unravelling the implications of all that radiocommunications legislation would take a genius. There is supposed to be a consolidating act out now. A guide (of sorts) can be found on the http:// website.

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  2. #52
    AlanPound is offline
    Location : Milton Keynes UK; Boat is (now) in Lymington
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    Default Re: So . . .

    &lt;Unless I'm hugely mistaken, and I'm sure someone will let me know, it is in fact illegal to use a non CE marked radio. &gt; ...then you explain how it isnt....

    .. but I'd take issue with your &lt;or takes it into service&gt;, as the average user of a product bought in good faith has no way of determining whether it meets whatever norms - the onus is really entirely on the manufacturer or distributor who "places the product on the market"...

    ... apart from that, isn't it pretty much what I said?

    You have CE marked stuff, stuff approved under previous regimes (which you so accurately quote - I knew someone would), and (which you don't mention) stuff quite legally used, as a result of it meeting norms of other regulatory bodies... I'd guess that really if you had such kit you'd need licensing from those same (or associated relevant) bodies (which might mean all sort of unreasonable paperwork), but I can't think that every US tub that enters these waters is risking arrest...

    .... (yawn) sorry - all a bit teejus this time of night..

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  3. #53
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    Default Re: So . . .

    Point is a lot of us know and accept the CE marking thing, this having been delved into many times. If you really need to have legal chapter and verse quoted at you everytime, wouldn't it be easier if you just learnt how to use Google or another search engine and verify the facts for yourself. It's a bit tedious quoting the verbatim legal stuff here, because the majority of users will not read it. The simpler versions are much easier for people to take in

    By the way, how many usernames do you have? I can't keep up. Are you Stubate as well, or is that another Stu?

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  4. #54
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    Default Re: So . . .

    Sorry to be tedious, but you brought the subject up, so don't be suprised if people respond.

    &lt;then you explain how it isnt....&gt;
    No idea what you mean, please explain.

    &lt;as the average user of a product bought in good faith has no way of determining whether it meets whatever norms - the onus is really entirely on the manufacturer or distributor who "places the product on the market"...&gt;

    The Icom chap who started this thread, simply warned that buying Icom radio's from ebay which are certified for US and not European use was doing exactly that, warning you and me that they are not suitable for use here and are not placing them in this UK market, and several people jumped down his throat for doing so.

    You've been told that non CE marked radio equipment is illegal, so the onus is now on you, and Mike Martin's group now have written evidence that anyone on this thread is aware that if any of you are using illegal non CE marine radio equipment you are using it illegally and aware of the consequences, and can use this thread in evidence against you.

    &gt;&gt;You have CE marked stuff, stuff approved under previous regimes (which you so accurately quote - I knew someone would), and (which you don't mention) stuff quite legally used, as a result of it meeting norms of other regulatory bodies... I'd guess that really if you had such kit you'd need licensing from those same (or associated relevant) bodies (which might mean all sort of unreasonable paperwork), but I can't think that every US tub that enters these waters is risking arrest...&lt;&lt;

    You been drinking? [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I don't even know where to start to unravel that lot.

    If you use CE marked equipment in the UK, you're OK. If you use older type approved equipment you're OK. If you're, say, a US boat who comes here as a visitor, I'd guess you'd get away with using SC-101 equipment as long as you don't plan on staying for years.

    It's not that difficult, unless you plan on buying modern equipment that is not CE approved and using it, and if you do so, you do it in the knowledge that it's illegal.

    As Stu says, who is going to check? If you get caught, you get caught, and take your punishment like a man, knowing you are in the wrong?





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  5. #55
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    Default Re: Sad

    ..and a shame that a manufacturer is willing to put head over parapet here, and immediately gets slam dunked. We should be encouraging them here to advise and answer questions, and handle REAL issues (like broken equipment), and this sort of response will scare the rest of them off

    Let the poor guy settle in and get used to forum life before hang, drawing, and quartering him.

    You're a bunch of shits in my opinion.

    And before you get started, he stated he was responsible for Euro products, and didn't know about US standards like SC-101. Why should he? I'm sure he'll soon learn if given a chance.

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  6. #56

    Default Re: Beware of E Bay

    I have not diligently read every word on this thread, there are quite a lot of them. I can state a couple of things though, sorry if I duplicate:

    As far as I am aware, the EU is the only significant legislative grouping in the western world (and that probably means everywhere else too) that does not accept "USA" (SC-101) VHF's for pleasure and small commercial vessel use. I stand corrected on that, but if any exceptions they will be few. I think that means the Icom international sets (they are not "USA" sets specially made for the USA, although that is obviously a big market and driver - in fact insofar as I am aware all Icom sets are made in Japan) can be legally used by the pleasure vessels of most countries. In the Western Commonwealth countries that includes Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Pleasure vessels from other countries that are flagged outside of the EU can legally use non EU sets in EU waters (there may be some treaty issues which I am unaware of, but this is correct in general).

    Because an international set is stated as complying with USA's SC-101, that does not mean it is a Class F set. It means that it complies or is better than SC-101, and most are. Taking Icom sets, the IC-M502 and IC-M602 exceed SC-101, and in my opinion are are perfectly adequate for pleasure and small commercial vessel use. For those sets that do not maintain DSC watch while voice transmissions are taking place (eg the IC-M402), I personally do not think this is a disadvantage in the pleasure market. The Icom documentation for the 502 is unclear as to whether it maintains watch during voice transmissions, but the documentation for the 602 (the non EU 601) claims to. I will have the opportunity to test that for sure next year as we are putting 2 vessels with 602's into a country where we also have a close relationship with the radio regulatory people.

    A DSC distress call is only to be answered by a shore station, with vessels only responding if after a period there is no response from a shore station. If there is a shore station within range, then the shore station will respond. If there is no shore station in range then the VHF should not be the primary alerting device on the vessel for distress, it should be a 406Mhz EPIRB or SSB (leaving aside INMARSAT for small vessels). If no shore station acknowledges the alert and there are other vessels in the vicinity, the chance of those other vessels (if they are limited to sets not able to maintain a watch during transmission) transmitting at the same time, and so precluded from hearing the alert will be remote. Most VHF's are used for transmission for only a very short period of their operable life. In my opinion the ability to maintain a DSC watch during voice transmission is not important for most pleasure use.

    I have used Icom as examples here as people seem to be more generally familiar with them from the discussion point of view. I also have no connection with Icom whatsoever, except as an occasional customer and as an occasional specifier of their equipment going into vessels.

    John

    <hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by MainlySteam on 11/09/2003 02:18 (server time).</FONT></P>
    <span style="color:blue">www.sailroom.co.uk</span>

  7. #57

    Default Re: Sad

    Brendan - I cannot resist the temptation to agree with you yet again.

    My view is Jon should be encouraged to contribute in the manner he offered to do, not be executed.

    John

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    <span style="color:blue">www.sailroom.co.uk</span>

  8. #58
    LORDNELSON is offline Registered User
    Location : West Sussex, England
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    Default Re: Checking . . .

    Yes, I was checked by an RA chap at the Folly last year. It was, of course, the one day I had forgotten my ships documents! He was very forgiving and really just checked my license disc to see it was in date.

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  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
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    1,953

    Default Re: Sad

    I don't know Brendan. Your going to ruin your reputation. Fancy being reasonable & fair to a manufacturer's representative.

    Shoot the messenger I say.

    Whe needs advice from those best placed to give it anyway. Lets just blunder on in our own sweet way. Otherwise we'll have nothing to moan about, will we!

    Martin

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  10. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    Default Re: Beware of E Bay

    Thanks for the input Jon. But are you saying, unless it's EC marked it's a dangerous, illegal piece of ****, made by the same factory, with the same components as the overpriced EC marked ones? No don't bother, I think a few others have already answered for you. Sorry you got flamed, but that's the way it is on this well informed forum.

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    If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

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