Passport question (or lack of)

[dslittle]

[QUOTE=toad_oftoadhall;3053483]
(Suppose I'm tacking up Channel and on one tack I go 13 miles offshore then tack back? Do customs then typically lock me up while someone fetches a passport? Who pays for that? Who looks after the boat? Seems unlikely, why haven't we heard of it.)
QUOTE]

Not quite a thread drift but we have two dogs on board. Both are microchipped and we regularly take them out sailing (one has actually got quite good at helming!)

A couple of weekends ago we had a chat with the local SB/Border Agency chaps at Eastbourne having just arrived. I asked if it was because of the dogs, they said no. I asked how they would know whether or not we had just come back from France rather than along the coast and they didn't know. Ludicrously, if we do take the dogs to France we are not allowed to bring them back to the UK on our yacht but who knows?

We do take our passports to France though (but not the dogs)

[Topcat47]

The Driving License is not proof of nationality.

I've been to Cherboug sans Passport as crew and got away with it. However, a German work colleague with only his ID card was turned away at Heathrow when trying to fly home for his son's birthday. It was very embarrassing (caused by the UK opting out of the Schengen (?) agreement). He also failed to gain admittance to a NATO meeting in The Hague for the same reason which was doubly embarrassing as he was delivering a paper at the meeting. Even the German Delegation couldn't get him in. (His ID was accepted by Eurostar who wanted to see my passport).

I have been asked for my passport when traveling to Europe by ferry, plane and train and I'd not try it on intentionally. I don't have a photographic driving license and you'd not believe the problems that presents in Europe these days. I just don't rent cars there anymore.

[capnsensible]

Because it's an imposition ?

Boo2

I live in Gibraltar. If I wish to cross the border into Spain, or transit the other way, I MUST show my passport or I will not be permitted to pass. No argument is tolerated.

Embrace your freedom, it is not universal.

[Seven Spades]

You do not need a passport to enter or leave GB or the CI's if traveling directly to or from both. You do need a passport if you stop in France. However technically your crew might not need a passport if they are not going ashore in France.

[Doug_Stormforce]

I hope to deliver the new boat back from Ramsgate to Jersey next week (or so), which might involve a stop in Cherbourg. But my crew does not have a passport and is adimant that a UK driving license will do? Obviously every where it says passport but is that because that is best or does some form of natinalistic photo ID do? In all honesty I expect to come across the channel myself but would like to consider the options.

Thanks in advance.

http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/boa...rmalities.aspx

The chances are you wont be asked for one but you should carry a passport. I don't really understand why anyone would question travelling abroad without one. I know Toad likes to argue these points but I am surprised so many others are saying don't worry. As the skipper I would not take anyone overseas without a passport, their laziness in obtaining one could cause me all sorts of hassles later.

[toad_oftoadhall]

I don't really understand why anyone would question travelling abroad without one. I know Toad likes to argue these points /

I just like to know what the law requires me to do. Seems like a good idea to know what the law requires and the consequences of failing to comply. Do you think otherwise?

I am surprised so many others are saying don't worry.

Perhaps beccause they don't have any information on what they should be worried about? I've genuinely got no idea. All I know about this is that in my experience passport loss causes little of no problems to UK Citizens. So maybe the professional sail trainers like yourself should provide some specific facts to put the rest of us straight so we can start to worry about it as you say we should?

I would not take anyone overseas without a passport, their laziness in obtaining one could cause me all sorts of hassles later.

Case in point. You're an RYA intructor you should know this. What happens if you lose you passport before travelling into Cherbourg? Some people are saying there's a 300EUR fine for the person who loses his passport. You're saying the 'skipper' gets "all sorts of hassles later". Specifically what sorts of trouble?

[Doug_Stormforce]

So maybe the professional sail trainers like yourself should provide some specific facts to put the rest of us straight so we can start to worry about it as you say we should?

I did! I notice you quoted every part of my post except for the link that provides the specific info you are after.

Case in point. You're an RYA intructor you should know this. What happens if you lose you passport before travelling into Cherbourg? Some people are saying there's a 300EUR fine for the person who loses his passport. You're saying the 'skipper' gets "all sorts of hassles later". Specifically what sorts of trouble?

Firstly travelling overseas with no passport at all is different from loosing it on passage. If you loose it you deal with it but to set of without it strikes me as folly. Have a read of the "Elsewhere" paragraph in the link I already provided.

The OP is planning on sailing Ramsgate to CI with a possible stop in France. Regardless of the possible stop it is quite likely that a French port or two may be possible bolt holes.

He therefore needs to consider;

Entry into CI from GB
Entry into France from GB
Entry into CI coming from France
Entry back into GB from France if something goes wrong on passage.
Entry back into GB coming from CI.

There is always the slim possibility that having entered the CI he needs to return to France but that it the least likely.

As we are part of the Common Travel Area (GB, Eire, CI and IOM) UK citizens do not require a passport to travel between the GB and CI, however it has always struck me that a passport proves you are a GB citizen and can therefore save some hassle if an official takes an interest in you. Its also a pretty good form of ID when at an airport (although I accept that most airlines will allow you to use a driving license, if it is a photo card type).

However all EU nationals (UK or non UK) should present if asked either a passport or national ID card when entering the CI from mainland Europe. As Brits we do not have a national ID card so the only option is passport.

Likewise as we are not part of the Schengen Treaty we are required to show (if asked) a passport (or national ID card) when entering France and again when returning to the UK from France.

So in summary the law of GB, France and the CI all require you to carry a passport when involving France in this trip. The fact that many yachties have crossed these boarders without being asked to show one does not mean it is not both common sense and a legal requirement to carry one. My own thoughts are that whenever going to the CI we all take our passports as it keeps our options open if we do have to stop in a French port.

What the fine or consequences of arriving in France without a passport is, I don't know but I do know that it is the law.

[toad_oftoadhall]

What the fine or consequences of arriving in France without a passport is, I don't know

Well perhaps you should have checked before posting warning us of "all sorts of hassles later"?

Incidently, I asked the question "Specifically what sorts of trouble?". You responded with 422 words evading the question and ended by confessing "What the fine or consequences of arriving in France without a passport is, I don't know".

Ever considered a career in politics?

Anyway, I don't know either and I want to know.

[chinita]

A lot of grief for inconsiderate 'crew'. Find somebody else or go alone.

[Doug_Stormforce]

Well perhaps you should have checked before posting warning us of "all sorts of hassles later"?

You said you wanted to know what the law was and I have told you.

The hassles could include

Delayed by officials as you don't have the most basic of travel documents, a passport.
Not being able to put an injured crew member quickly ashore as you don't have a passport.
Not being able to clear a crew member into a foreign country because you don't have his passport- until you clear him in he is your responsibility
Not being able to put a problem crew member ashore because you don't have his passport
Being accused of breaking immigration laws by 3 separate countries

If you want to know the exact fine and court proceedings in France then you probably need a French lawyer who specialises in that area, I am only a yacht skipper/sailing Instructor. By respecting the law in the countries I visit i find i don't need to worry too much about the outcome of ignoring it.