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  1. #11
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    And if you weren't allowed an engine would you still keep a boat? I'll bet you would; and get just as much pleasure out of it.
    'The lyf so short
    the arte so long to lerne.'

  2. #12
    Burnham Bob's Avatar
    Burnham Bob is offline Registered User
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    my seagull used to run on a mix of 10:1 which wasn't eco friendly. it now runs on 25:1 courtesy of a new needle from John at Saving Old Seagulls. for the minimal use it gets, i think its age and the fact that it will keep going forever with a bit of care and attention means that overall its carbon footprint over its last forty years and the future will in the aggregate be pretty minimal as opposed to the manufacture, transport and fuel burnt of a new outboard with a life of ten years.

    that's my excuse for sticking with the seagull anyway!
    Last edited by Burnham Bob; 17-08-11 at 15:36.

  3. #13
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    Default that is all true

    Quote Originally Posted by Burnham Bob View Post
    my seagull used to run on a mix of 10:1 which wasn't eco friendly. it now runs on 25:1 courtesy of a new needle from John at Saving Old Seagulls. for the minimal use it gets, i think its age and the fact that it will keep going forever with a bit of care and attention means that overall its carbon footprint over its last forty years and the future will in the aggregate be pretty minimal as opposed to the manufacture, transport and fuel burnt of a new outboard with a life of ten years.

    that's my excuse for sticking with the seagull anyway!
    but its not really the carbon footprint that is the issue - although it is obviously important as well

    it is the petrol and oil mix that you dribble out of the carb before starting and then the oil that ends up in the water from the partially burned fuel

    both seagulls in the films run at 25:1



    the evinrude runs at 50 to 1

    http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/201...ting-evinrude/




    but it is still less efficient - two strokes always leave unburbned fuel and oil in the exhaust gas

    four strokes can burn pretty clean

    still a carbon footprint.

    of course a few rops from a seagull compared to the amount of stuff that comes down the Nene from Northampton, Peterborough and Wisbech it is tiny

    I still feel guilty though

    Dylan

    Dylan
    Last edited by dylanwinter; 17-08-11 at 17:09.

  4. #14
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    Seagulls are evil. They queue up on the roofs of shops and as soon as someone walks out of a shop with food in their hand it's dive, dive, dive. Winged muggers. Shotguns are not good enough for them.
    I jumped off a bridge in Paris. Turned out I was in Seine.

  5. #15
    CalicoJack is offline Registered User
    Location : Chatham, Kent
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    Default Pollution

    I admire your views on your Seagull, and two stroke outboards, you are of course correct. They do pollute, there is no way round it BUT....

    Most coastal towns still pump their sewerage into the sea. Oh yes they treat it ie they mash it up into tiny particals and remove material which has not come out of the human body. Then they add tons of bleach to it, to kill the smell, and then they pump it out into the sea via long sea outfalls so that it has the chance to dilute before it comes into contact with the beach.

    So accepting that two wrongs don't make a right, as my mother always seemed to be saying, whats a few drops of oil/petrol mix compared to tons of sewage and gallons of bleach?
    Calico Jack

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnham Bob View Post
    my seagull used to run on a mix of 10:1 which wasn't eco friendly. it now runs on 25:1 courtesy of a new needle from John at Saving Old Seagulls.
    Do you know if you can get a needle for a British Anzani ?
    Work to live not live to work

  7. #17
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    Default you speak sense

    Quote Originally Posted by CalicoJack View Post
    I admire your views on your Seagull, and two stroke outboards, you are of course correct. They do pollute, there is no way round it BUT....

    Most coastal towns still pump their sewerage into the sea. Oh yes they treat it ie they mash it up into tiny particals and remove material which has not come out of the human body. Then they add tons of bleach to it, to kill the smell, and then they pump it out into the sea via long sea outfalls so that it has the chance to dilute before it comes into contact with the beach.

    So accepting that two wrongs don't make a right, as my mother always seemed to be saying, whats a few drops of oil/petrol mix compared to tons of sewage and gallons of bleach?


    what you say is certainly true -

    if you look at my films of the thames where I saw the thames bubblers in action

    or look at the outfalls on the Colne, the Ore and the Nene

    and to smell the nene at certain states of the tide

    seaguls do only contribute a lliteral drop; in the ocean.

    and the slug has its very own loo of last resort and even by using the town and pub loos in wisbech I also contribute to the tons of sewage and bleach.

    However, I think that the cost to me of not putting that odd drop of unburned oil and petrol from a museum peice of an outboard into the fragile environment of the wash is very small

    The 2.3 hp Honda is almost as powerful as the 4hp seagull - and all it does is to throw some greenhoouse gasses into the air - fewer gasses than the seagull

    In this case doing the ethical thing is costing me very little

    so that is what I shall do.

    KTL is an environmental disaster with all the miles I am driving - but I usually use a one litre polo.

    Forgive me for I am a hypocrit

    but I try to minimise my hypocrisy

    Dylan

  8. #18
    electrosys is offline Registered User
    Location : Boston - gateway to the North Sea (and bugger all else).
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    Ok - in defence of Seagulls ...

    Dribbling 2-stroke mix from the carb float chamber - with care this can be minimal.

    Leaking fuel tap - fix it. It's a lot cheaper than losing fuel. Boil the cork, or simply replace it.

    Losing oil from the gearbox - if you fit a V-seal to the prop shaft, then it will only leak a microscopic amount of oil when the clutch is engaged. During running, there will be (or should be) no leaks from 'down there'. [sounds like an advert for Tena-Lady ...]

    Noise - block up the exhaust tube holes. Fit a water-injection pipe (like the model 102's) if you're a perfectionist. Difficult starting due to 'back-pressure'/ excessive immersion etc, is a myth. I've proved it by experimentation.

    Smoke - so what ? What's the problem with burning a bit of oil. Diesels do it all the time. A Seagull may burn a pint of oil a year - how many gallons of diesel oil does the average yacht burn every trip ? And as for diesels on the road ....

    When a stern greaser is turned, and another blob of grease enters the stuffing box - where do you think that stuff finally ends up ? Shall we start talking about banning stern greasers ?

    In conclusion - let's not forget that oil and petrol are natural substances, which were created from decaying marine life. And as such they are biodegradable. Although we call a small bloom on the water's surface 'pollution' - I'm not sure that's fair - it is simply a sign: that what came from the ocean has finally returned from whence it came.

    So c'mon - let's keep this in perspective.

  9. #19
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    Default Correct on all counts

    Quote Originally Posted by electrosys View Post
    Ok - in defence of Seagulls ...

    Dribbling 2-stroke mix from the carb float chamber - with care this can be minimal.

    Leaking fuel tap - fix it. It's a lot cheaper than losing fuel. Boil the cork, or simply replace it.

    Losing oil from the gearbox - if you fit a V-seal to the prop shaft, then it will only leak a microscopic amount of oil when the clutch is engaged. During running, there will be (or should be) no leaks from 'down there'. [sounds like an advert for Tena-Lady ...]

    Noise - block up the exhaust tube holes. Fit a water-injection pipe (like the model 102's) if you're a perfectionist. Difficult starting due to 'back-pressure'/ excessive immersion etc, is a myth. I've proved it by experimentation.

    Smoke - so what ? What's the problem with burning a bit of oil. Diesels do it all the time. A Seagull may burn a pint of oil a year - how many gallons of diesel oil does the average yacht burn every trip ? And as for diesels on the road ....

    When a stern greaser is turned, and another blob of grease enters the stuffing box - where do you think that stuff finally ends up ? Shall we start talking about banning stern greasers ?

    In conclusion - let's not forget that oil and petrol are natural substances, which were created from decaying marine life. And as such they are biodegradable. Although we call a small bloom on the water's surface 'pollution' - I'm not sure that's fair - it is simply a sign: that what came from the ocean has finally returned from whence it came.

    So c'mon - let's keep this in perspective.
    Everything you say is true and perfectly expressed

    I agree on all countsd

    and you are correct - perspective is everything

    human beings, whatever we do, are dirty b*$tards

    the whole stern gland thing does bother me too


    Dylan

  10. #20
    electrosys is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by dylanwinter View Post
    [...] the whole stern gland thing does bother me too
    Dylan
    Dylan - how about looking at this as a trade-off ?

    Ok - so you are adding a miniscule amount of 'pollution' (could debate that, as previously mentioned) to the environment ... so let's call that a negative impact on the world.

    But what positive impacts are you creating at the same time ?

    I haven't seen any of your film clips myself (computer dates from the days of steam-power, and hangs if it encounters anything half-way modern), but I know many here have, do, and are looking forward to future instalments. I'd say you're providing a valuable public service, with the positive impact far outweighing the negative one.

    All-in-all, I'd say that the scales balance in your favour ... so sleep easy.

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