Cold starting tips required

[Lazy Kipper]

Apologies for slight thread drift - any idea if the Thornycroft 230 has pre heaters or glow plugs? It was a freezing cold day on Saturday and it took about 30 seconds to start which is very unusual.

[Stu Jackson]

We installed a glow plug solenoid on our engine to reduce the length of wire that the power has to run through. Used to have to go all the way to the cockpit panel and back.

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?ti...ith_a_Solenoid

[pcatterall]

Thanks guys.
Yes it is the 'speed seal plus' which has the ceramic insert and claimed to give longer life. If they claim 10 minutes then I guess that 1min cranking will be safe.
I assumed the heater plug was working as I could see a whisp of smoke from the breather. I will check next time to see if there is a flame! the flame suprises me a bit I thiught it just warmed up and dewaxed the fuel.
I take the point about battery condition, the engine seems to crank at agood speed but past experience has taught me that the extra ummph from a tip top battery can make all the difference.
Thanks again

[Alpha22]

There is probably a little tank that should contain some diesel, you will have to fill it periodically. This dispenses a small amount of diesel into the inlet manifold where one heater plug ignites it. This warms the air int he manifold and the manifold a little enabling starting in the cold.
The tanks often rust and the diesel will drip out.

It sounds prehistoric and it is, but when it works it works well!!!

[rotrax]

I would not use easy start under any circs, better to apply a (lit) plumber's gas torch to the air intake.

Hi, Once in the Czech Republic in early December the tempreture dropped to minus 21c. To get our Fiat Uno diesel to start I had to make a flaming torch from a stick and rags,dip it in diesel, light it and allow the flames to be sucked down the open air intake. If I had had a plumbers blowlamp I would have used that. As a one second squirt of Easystart through my little hole works well enough for me I'll stick with it. I have been involved with engines of all types for over 45 years and have never heard of a problem caused by the use of any ether based starting fluid. Many myths and fairy stories abound about the damage that these aids to starting can cause. If ether based fluids were detrimental to internal combustion engines please explain to me how the tiny model two stroke semi diesel glow plug engines that model makers use get away with 20,000 rpm plus using ether and oil fuel mixtures.They often use overhung crankshafts and other poorly thought of design features that real engine designers would not consider. Some of the stories about engines "getting used to Easystart" is that they are on the verge of terminal failure anyway and get a little longer running time by the stuff allowing the poor worn out mechanisms to start at all. In my opinion,of course.

[l'escargot]

I've got a 4107. There should be a small tank dripping fuel onto the pre heater when you open a tap. In cold weather when the engine hasn't been started for a while, full throttle and give the pre heater 30 to 60 seconds and get some good whisps of smoke coming from the mushroom over the air intake. If it doesn't start the first couple of turns, give the pre heater even longer.

[SAMYL]

Hi, Once in the Czech Republic in early December the tempreture dropped to minus 21c. To get our Fiat Uno diesel to start I had to make a flaming torch from a stick and rags,dip it in diesel, light it and allow the flames to be sucked down the open air intake. If I had had a plumbers blowlamp I would have used that. As a one second squirt of Easystart through my little hole works well enough for me I'll stick with it. I have been involved with engines of all types for over 45 years and have never heard of a problem caused by the use of any ether based starting fluid. Many myths and fairy stories abound about the damage that these aids to starting can cause. If ether based fluids were detrimental to internal combustion engines please explain to me how the tiny model two stroke semi diesel glow plug engines that model makers use get away with 20,000 rpm plus using ether and oil fuel mixtures.They often use overhung crankshafts and other poorly thought of design features that real engine designers would not consider. Some of the stories about engines "getting used to Easystart" is that they are on the verge of terminal failure anyway and get a little longer running time by the stuff allowing the poor worn out mechanisms to start at all. In my opinion,of course.

+1

[skipper_stu]

If it takes 60 secs to start the engine, its too long, as it will drain the batteries and possibly damage the starter motor.

If the engine has low compression, perhaps due to its age since last overhaul, then ensure that the glow plugs / heater works well; otherwise, a tiny amount of spray with "easy start" will help a lot as it will ignite at a lower temperature than diesel oil.

Some will argue that the engine will get used to "easy start" spray; that is not true; engines have no feelings!

No they dont get addicted or have feelings! What does happen is that too much is used, the engines then fire too early, just like pinking in a petrol engine. The piston rings then get trapped by the ring lands being compressed by the forces from pre ignition. This gives more loss of compression and so it goes on. Stuff of last resort, if you have to use it the engine is shagged!
To Peter, as others have said, check the coil in the inlet manifold is heating up, also check that the fuel feed to the heater coil is working, this system relys on the heater vapourising fuel to make "gas" (Im assuming it is the later heatercoil/fuel system) A bit of useless info, thats where the term gas oil comes from, vaporise the gas oil to make "gas" that burns from the heat of compression.
Stu

[skipper_stu]

Hi, Once in the Czech Republic in early December the tempreture dropped to minus 21c. To get our Fiat Uno diesel to start I had to make a flaming torch from a stick and rags,dip it in diesel, light it and allow the flames to be sucked down the open air intake. If I had had a plumbers blowlamp I would have used that. As a one second squirt of Easystart through my little hole works well enough for me I'll stick with it. I have been involved with engines of all types for over 45 years and have never heard of a problem caused by the use of any ether based starting fluid. Many myths and fairy stories abound about the damage that these aids to starting can cause. If ether based fluids were detrimental to internal combustion engines please explain to me how the tiny model two stroke semi diesel glow plug engines that model makers use get away with 20,000 rpm plus using ether and oil fuel mixtures.They often use overhung crankshafts and other poorly thought of design features that real engine designers would not consider. Some of the stories about engines "getting used to Easystart" is that they are on the verge of terminal failure anyway and get a little longer running time by the stuff allowing the poor worn out mechanisms to start at all. In my opinion,of course.

See my other post about easy start, I have repaired countless diesels with the sort of damage that I describe. Model aero engines dont have piston rings to get damaged and the compression ratio is adjusted with the screw on the top of the cylinder, I suspect it isnt as hi as vehicule engines and the design is such that they can cope with the loads
.
Stu

[pcatterall]

No 'little supply tank' on this 4108. My last one had. I still don't understand how my 'warmed up' fuel becomes ignited as ( at that stage) it is not vapourised.