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  1. #331
    BlowingOldBoots's Avatar
    BlowingOldBoots is offline Registered User
    Location : Scotland, The Firth of Clyde
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guapa View Post
    You hear this all the time, but why is this such a good thing?
    There's compulsory licensing for driving a car, flying a plane, ... Why would this not be a good thing for boats?
    Because it means change! Maintaining the status quo while expecting improvements is a very British thing.
    Having time is unavoidable.

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guapa View Post
    You hear this all the time, but why is this such a good thing?
    There's compulsory licensing for driving a car, flying a plane, ... Why would this not be a good thing for boats?
    What improvement would it make to justify the cost and bureaucracy? All the Hot Liquid incidents have had Yachtmaster Instructors as skippers.

    A boat is more like the equivalent of a bicycle or hang glider compared to the full sized commercial stuff.

    On the other hand, it might reduce the number of silly ColReg debates on the forum.

  3. #333
    rotrax is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guapa View Post
    You hear this all the time, but why is this such a good thing?
    There's compulsory licensing for driving a car, flying a plane, ... Why would this not be a good thing for boats?
    So that our esteemed Government would not charge great wodges of cash to pay for the management and bureocracy that would accompany licencing, let alone enforcement. In my opinion, of course.........

  4. #334
    toad_oftoadhall's Avatar
    toad_oftoadhall is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by dt4134 View Post
    All the Hot Liquid incidents have had Yachtmaster Instructors as skippers.

    A boat is more like the equivalent of a bicycle or hang glider compared to the full sized commercial stuff.
    +1.

  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotrax View Post
    So that our esteemed Government would not charge great wodges of cash to pay for the management and bureocracy that would accompany licencing, let alone enforcement. In my opinion, of course.........
    Alas, our rulers are so inept that they would charge us great wedges of cash, still fail to cover the costs, consume yet more taxpayers' money and still find a way to award failing bureaucrats substantial performance bonuses.

  6. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner! View Post
    Try £85 per day!
    Having taken many training courses with Hot Liquid, I agree with madmitch they were not perfect but were always very well staffed and very safety aware during all my training. Charlie is an excellent tutor with a vast experience and was always very aware of any safety issues, I think that there is a big lesson to be learnt in that 2 of the 3 incidents involving the Hot Liquid fleet were on trips to and from the boat show in London, and as such were subject to a tight timetable which left little room for diversions, not the way to plan any sailing trip.

  7. #337
    A1exander is offline New User
    Location : worldwide but residing Moscow, Russia
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    Default Some precedings

    Once I took the course from Hot Liquid. I booked Yachtmaster prep. It was Summer 2010.

    The first surprise I got just I stepped aboard (It was exactly that Bavaria “Liquid Fusion” that sank on Goodwin bank few month later): my Yachtmaster prep course (2 students) was unioned with Competent crew course (2 students) and Coastal skipper practical (1 student). Can you guess what that course looked like? Yes! We were sailing Solent and did some elementary things mixed up with some exam prep elements. So, I suppose that noone got anything from that week! And I can’t blame instruction – he was doing his best in that inconsistent situation.

    The 2nd surprise I got on 4th day when diesel refused to start. So we spent half day to try to recover it and other part of the day to come back to Southampton from Yarmouth instead of doing exercises. Next morning a serviceman fixed it. Buy the way he said that it’s the regular problem with this engine because Mr.Manning is buying used parts for replacements. So 1,5 days from our 5 days course were wasted.

    Of course that it was absolutely clear that we got a few nice (more or less) sailing days instead of studying course. Of course that Mr.Manning refuse that proposal to refund the payment or even a part. It was not a surprise. I’ve got the 3d surprise when I saw that everyone got the certificate! Ever the old lady (about 65-70) whose role was just a passenger for that 5 days got Compenent Crew certificate, even her husband whose role wasn’t much more advanced got Coastal skipper certificate!

    So when you are hearing Mr.Manning words that he had collected people with the necessary competences for that 3 tragic voyages – you should realize the real level of “competence” of Mr.Manning’s students.

    I don’t want this post be accepted as revenge of unhappy customer. Of course that I’ve been unhappy but I easily can understand the Mr.Manning’s reason to do this way – we are living in the age of economic efficiency. But! There is something more valuable then economic efficiency – human’s life! So there is no matter for reasons – there are just deeds and consequences.

    P.S. There was the 4th surprise in that story – when RYA ignored this story (of course that I informed them) as an evidence that someone in sailing education business raised the value economic efficiency over human life and hadn’t stopped the Mr.Manning’s bloody business. My story is just the pre-story for next 3 accidents but it shows the whole concatenation that has taken to current victims.

    P.P.S. I won’t be surprised if I investigation find that Mr.Manning especially sent his yachts to be sank to get insurance payout to clear debts. But I haven’t still got any information about it up to now.
    Last edited by A1exander; 06-03-12 at 16:06.

  8. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by A1exander View Post
    P.P.S. I wonít be surprised if I investigation find that Mr.Manning especially sent his yachts to be sank to get insurance payout to clear debts. But I havenít still got any information about it up to now.
    you sir, are an idiot.

  9. #339
    sarabande's Avatar
    sarabande is offline Registered User
    Location : up on the moors.
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    I think the passion of a wronged customer, whose native language is not English, cannot be underestimated.

    Corners were cut.
    I think, therefore I am. I am, therefore I sail.

  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by zambego View Post
    you sir, are an idiot.
    It took you 2 1/2 months to think up that response?

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