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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    Default

    From RNLI email subject line ...
    Our lifesaving sale starts today. Up to 40% off!
    Should HL perhaps step up, offer to contribute the cost of the rescue - and ask for the 40% discount to be retrospective?! [/joke - for those to anal to realise that it is one]

  2. #62
    Juggler7823 is offline Registered User
    Location : UK, North Wales
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    May 2001
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    877

    Default Mate?

    One point that has not been mentioned or discussed is that of the yacht needing an experienced mate in its coding requirements. The following is a paragraph from the Myth of Malham MAIB report for the yacht Hot Vortex. I assume that the coding requirements were the same for Hot Liquid.

    "Liquid Vortex was certified under the Code of Practice for the Construction, Machinery, Equipment, Stability, Operation and Examination of Sailing Vessels of up to 24m load line length, in commercial use and which do not carry more than 12 passengers (the Blue Code). The yacht was allowed to operate up to 60 nautical miles from a safe haven provided a skipper holding a commercially endorsed RYA Yachtmaster Offshore CoC and second experienced person were on board."

    Was there a "second experienced person aboard"? If so what were his views about setting out and did he take any part in the helming and decision making?
    Last edited by Juggler7823; 06-01-12 at 09:21.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    2,177

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Juggler7823 View Post

    Was there a "second experienced person aboard"? If so what were his views about setting out and did he take any part in the helming and decision making?
    Ah, that would explain why they are so keen to mention the DS in there statement...

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Juggler7823 View Post
    The yacht was allowed to operate up to 60 nautical miles from a safe haven provided a skipper holding a commercially endorsed RYA Yachtmaster Offshore CoC and second experienced person were on board."

    Was there a "second experienced person aboard"? If so what were his views about setting out and did he take any part in the helming and decision making?
    From what I've read on here and news reports - so may not be complete - is that the next most experienced (in terms of RYA certification) person onboard was a DS who hadn't sailed for 3 years ... and subsequently refused to helm as the boat was unmanageable.

    I know from personal experience that you cannot be in two places at once - ie a tricky berth where you want the most experienced person on the wheel - but if that's the same person who is best to do the tie off it can make life interesting - little "problems" like that are rarely life threatening though.

    It does make you question the thought process behind proceeding - you're setting out into a strong wind with more forecast, you have crew whose experience may or may not be sufficient - so what would happen if the skipper was the person incapacitated?
    I know you can't plan for every eventuality - but incapacity of the skipper is a primary concern and perhaps shouldn't be the only person onboard capable of making decisions? Is that why there is a requirement for a second "experienced" person onboard ... is there a minimum requirement for that experience?

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    13

    Default Goog point

    Quote Originally Posted by Judders View Post
    Ah, that would explain why they are so keen to mention the DS in there statement...
    I imagine that I would have been considered to be the second most experienced person as I own a yacht and have day skipper but I made it perfectly clear before we left that I'd sailed very little in the last three years and didn't feel that I was experienced.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    Default

    Well I'd be speculating if I pondered outloud that IF the coding requires a first mate and you have become the de facto first mate and yet are being charged for the position...

    Oh it doens't bare thinking about. All my prejudices about paying to sail do give me a rather jaundiced view I am afraid, though recent incidents (and not just those involving Hot Liquid) do appear to reinforce my point.

  7. #67
    rib is offline Registered User
    Location : west country uk
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    Default

    is there a requirement for a 2nd person(compulsory i mean) ?

  8. #68
    rib is offline Registered User
    Location : west country uk
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    Default

    judders.how do peeps who cant afford a boat go sailing then in your world

  9. #69
    marklucas is offline Registered User
    Location : South UK - and anywhere with a floating boat!
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    May 2004
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    749

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rib View Post
    is there a requirement for a 2nd person(compulsory i mean) ?
    No.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    13

    Default Concerned...

    Quote Originally Posted by Judders View Post
    Well I'd be speculating if I pondered outloud that IF the coding requires a first mate and you have become the de facto first mate and yet are being charged for the position...

    Oh it doens't bare thinking about. All my prejudices about paying to sail do give me a rather jaundiced view I am afraid, though recent incidents (and not just those involving Hot Liquid) do appear to reinforce my point.
    I hadn't thought of it that way, but I will certainly be giving a full account to the MAIB. In my opinion there were so many issues which will need to be examined.

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