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  1. #91
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    A very interesting thread, especially when one disregards the 'trenches'. A man who must have been much wiser than I is reported to have quipped "It's not the ships, it's the men who sail them".


    P.S. One of my boats is a bilge-keeler (Westerly Centaur) while the other one has 2 tonnes of lead encapsulated in a 'fin' and a rudder on a skeg (Wauquiez Centurion 32). I can't really complain about either one of them.
    Should we paint what is on a face, what is inside it, or what is behind it?

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_morris_uk View Post
    I have enjoyed a few ocean passages and I have never been on one where the crew didn't watch the progress made with great interest. In light airs all efforts being made to get the boat moving and lots of happy discussions about what the first beer or run punch will taste like. So the point I am trying to make is that if you enjoy sailing just for being at sea then fine, but most people seem to like to make progress and if I get there two or three days quicker then that makes a lot of sense to me.
    Well we're well into semantics here but that sounds more like a delivery than a bluewater passage. In the context that the word brings into my head, the bluewater sailors I know like to keep the boat moving efficiently but speed isn't that big a deal. Not breaking anything being far more important. If it's another day across an ocean who cares.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vara View Post
    If long keels are so good, why doesn't anybody make them any more.

    I loved sailing the Nic 32, stable, good in very strong weather, lovely motion but a nightmare in marinas, cramped and not particularly fast.

    But things move on and now with a conservative fin and skeg I'm a happy bunny and wouldn't go back for all the tea....
    But they do ... Island Packet and Cabo Rico are two (US) builders amongst others. An earlier post praised Chuck Paine's designs which I agree with: he designed some lovely and fast long keel boats with cut away forefoots.

  4. #94
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    There are so many chapters, multiple ways to enjoy sailing. I'm intrigued by the points of similarity in our contributions, rather than the points of divergence.

  5. #95
    Oatcake is online now Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_morris_uk View Post
    ?? Can you translate please?
    I didn't even realise I'd posted this.

    Wrt to long keelers, at the 25 -32 foot range (ish - rather arbitrary but hopefully I'll make my point) long keelers tend to be favourite for offshore sailing. If one were to name ten recommended circa 26-30 foot boats to use for offshore sailing then I reckon 8 of them would be long keeled.mprobably folkoat types.

    It's when we get to larger boats that other keel configs become recommended for offshore sailing as an alternative to long keel.

    I would always favour a long keeled boat up to 32 feet. By 40 feet I reckon I would be open to any keel config as long as the numbers stacked up and she sailed well.

    Also manoeuvring up to 32 foot long keeler in tight places is not that hard. 36 feet is borderline, and A 40+ foot long Keel is going to need bow thruster and be causing many more headaches, needing hammerheads etc despite being very comfortable offshore becoming a bit of a pain compared to a long fin and Skeg. IMO.

    So it's all about the overall size/dispalcement of the boat too.

  6. #96
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    Babylon is online now Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranona View Post
    There are two examples of long keel boats getting the prop fouled on this thread alone.
    Crikey! What have you been smoking?
    http://www.smiletrain.org.uk - charity for child cleft palate surgery

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
    Crikey! What have you been smoking?
    Does not make sense out of context but makes perfect sense in the context of how (and why) it was posted!

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oatcake View Post
    Also manoeuvring up to 32 foot long keeler in tight places is not that hard. 36 feet is borderline, and A 40+ foot long Keel is going to need bow thruster and be causing many more headaches, needing hammerheads etc
    Mine is a 52ft long keeler (not counting the 16 ft of the bowsprit which sticks out) with no bow thruster. No need for hammerheads. A little bit of thinking ahead and the occasional warp, is all that is required for parking in Med style berths, stern to. Not that I would want to do that without the engine though.

  9. #99
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    This thread touched a bit of a nerve and I've been mulling over it for a few days. I think some of the posts are looking at the question from the wrong direction.
    This will not come out very well but here goes.
    For bluewater sailing a very good first step would be to go down the chemist, buy a big bag of humility pills and scoff the lot. You are a tiny speck of nothing. Developing an open mind and dealing with the world as it is in any particular moment with the info available will work better. the whole "long keels bad " thing just smells of having some kind of prediction of the future with little knowledge.
    The first post would have been much more useful if it was more like "lots of people over the years like traditional heavy boats for bluewater, why is that and what can I learn from it"

    Knew it wouldn't come out right.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conachair View Post
    This thread touched a bit of a nerve and I've been mulling over it for a few days. I think some of the posts are looking at the question from the wrong direction.
    This will not come out very well but here goes.
    For bluewater sailing a very good first step would be to go down the chemist, buy a big bag of humility pills and scoff the lot. You are a tiny speck of nothing. Developing an open mind and dealing with the world as it is in any particular moment with the info available will work better. the whole "long keels bad " thing just smells of having some kind of prediction of the future with little knowledge.
    The first post would have been much more useful if it was more like "lots of people over the years like traditional heavy boats for bluewater, why is that and what can I learn from it"

    Knew it wouldn't come out right.
    hee hee... got your point though Paddy!

    I'm interested in this debate, as within the last year i've moved from a 40' fin keel to a 45' long keel.... yet to fully appreciate the upside and downside as i'm locked into a spiralling task list of 'things to do' before we get out on the water properly, but FWIW, my decision was based on compromises.... and ours was trading the comfort on long offshore passages aagainst the reduced maneouverability in close quarters.... I figured in the end, over the last 30 or so years, that i've been a lot more frightened by rough weather offshore than by challenging berthing situations... and that not looking forward to passage making, would spoil the whole bluewater experience for us. The rudder vulnerability bit barely factored at all in our decision making at all.

    However, open minded enough to appreciate that this is probably an area where there simply is no right answer Ún masse, and every one must find the path that works for them.

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