Red Diesel

**joliette** · 22-02-12, 08:41

I read the news today, oh boy ...!

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news/...l-use-outlawed

I wonder if the politics driving this will ultimately lead to further inflation of the price at the Marina pump?

**jimmy_the_builder** · 22-02-12, 08:49

Already under discussion here:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=305354

Cheers
Jimmy

**Latestarter1** · 22-02-12, 09:42

I did not want to be involved in hysterical press ranting.........MBM Greg.

I am still a wee bit wounded when I predicted on the PBO Forum shortly following announcement of the HMRC 60/40 solution that the French had already called 'foul'.
Prediction was met with me almost being branded a heritic.

Here is what I have posted elsewhere;

My pragmatic view is that nothing has changed.

Before I retired was involved with intial negotiations with DTI and HMRC over introduction of zero sulphur fuel to meet the Non Road Mobile Machinery Directive together with the sideshow, which was the ending of our Derogation on fuel taxation.

HMRC came up with the wonderfully pragmatic 60/40 split to take some of the pain out of the tranistion and avoid huge infrastructure costs early on. I was still getting meeting notes at the time our Derogation ended and the French were adamant the 60/40 split was a clear breach of the EU Directive and declared that they would take the UK to Court. Since 2008 we have lived in limbo land. Recently Belgium seems to have taken up the cudgels, surprisingly the French are still pretty laid back with regard to enforcement.

The latest ministerial announcement is once again pragmatic. The full might of the Commission was about to take us to Court over UK's failure enforce the Directive, this announcement simply side steps the issue and avoid a costly legal battle which we were bound to loose.

Following the end of Derogation you were ALWAYS cruzin for a bruzin going to EU country with red in your tanks. This announcement just takes the UK Government out of the firing line.

**mm1** · 22-02-12, 10:14

To Latestarter1 you are wrong to say nothing has changed!.we now have no backing from our government & we now have to admit to using illegal fuel in the EU.these are very big changes IMHO ,regards mm1

**rafiki_** · 22-02-12, 10:38

Red diesel is taxed. Eu member countries determine the level of tax in their domain. UK Govt has fixed the taxation level for various forms of diesel. With my level of knowledge of the issue, I'm struggling to appreciate what the problem is here, other than the colour of the diesel. If boaters can prove that they have paid tax on the diesel in the place that they purchased it, why should they be fined? Clearly I am being very niaive here.

**sarabande** · 22-02-12, 10:43

if you had two fuel tanks on board, and one had the criminal red, and one the lawful white, and it was arranged that you could switch from one to the other at will, does anyone know if that will satisfy the fuel police ?

**mikef** · 22-02-12, 11:44

Originally Posted by rafiki_

Red diesel is taxed. Eu member countries determine the level of tax in their domain. UK Govt has fixed the taxation level for various forms of diesel. With my level of knowledge of the issue, I'm struggling to appreciate what the problem is here, other than the colour of the diesel. If boaters can prove that they have paid tax on the diesel in the place that they purchased it, why should they be fined? Clearly I am being very niaive here.

The problem is not that the red diesel isn't taxed, it is that red diesel is available to pleasure boat owners and is taxed at a different rate to other types of diesel used for propulsion. Apparently that contravenes EU directives which are designed to stop countries giving their own specific industries a competitive advantage through their tax and duty system. If red diesel for pleasure boats was taxed at the same rate as road diesel, there would be less of an issue although the use of marked fuel in pleasure boats is still considered improper use AFAIK. Other EU countries use is a system in which white diesel is available to all users but only commercial users can buy it at a rebated price

**Latestarter1** · 22-02-12, 11:04

The Government had no choice.......Derogation ended four years ago.

We knew this would happen at the very beginning, we were on borrowed time.

It would have been far better for journals and RYA to prepare people for this outcome and deal with it rather than wilfully mislead boaters that you can change anything. Government call was the correct one.....Only fools a rich men fight battles that cannot be won.

From practical standpoint suspect boaters going to EU Country will need to plan passage with care, bunker on their FIRST arrival and keep reciepts in order to exercise dilligence in observing EU law. If one is still fined by overzelious official then this simply has to be regarded as a tax.

The alternative of switching to 100% taxed diesel will cost everybody particularly those who will never consider leaving our shores big $$. We went around the block on use of marked road fuel for marine use. Two quite different grades of taxed but unmarked fuel would be a costly nightmare for the fuel distribution industry. WHICH WOULD have TO BE PASSED ON.

Consider the legal as well as cost inpact of putting anything other than zero sulphur fuel into a vehicle which has just been fitted with between 3 and 4 grands worth of DPF in order to comply with latest 2012 London LEZ regulations.

Suggest people calm down and look happy the alternatives will hurt the majority, unintended outcomes and all that!

**Searush** · 22-02-12, 11:53

Originally Posted by mm1

To Latestarter1 you are wrong to say nothing has changed!.we now have no backing from our government & we now have to admit to using illegal fuel in the EU.these are very big changes IMHO ,regards mm1

And you think that is a change? Sorry, but I see no change there at all.