I think this is disgusting from a fellow boater

[dhobyb]

Speaking as someone who has just made the change to sail, mainly due to the cost of fuel, both for the boat and the Travel to the boat, I have a great deal of sympathy for the mobo users, I am dismayed that so mainy people on this forum are willing to roll over and accept our treatment by the Belgians, and accept extra costs, Our government is going to do nothing for us, and the RYA just don't understand, so just boycott Belgium, and make sure they know why, you never know they might try and attract us with lower fuel cost. However if we carry on the way we are going (all the infighting) we will never achieve anything.......Solidarity boaters!! its the only way.

If we had the French mentality would we all go to Weymouth in August to make our point.

just one point my marina fees went UP when I changed, marina's charge per foot regardless of propulsion method.

[Chrusty 1]

Speaking as someone who has just made the change to sail, mainly due to the cost of fuel, both for the boat and the Travel to the boat, I have a great deal of sympathy for the mobo users, I am dismayed that so mainy people on this forum are willing to roll over and accept our treatment by the Belgians, and accept extra costs, Our government is going to do nothing for us, and the RYA just don't understand, so just boycott Belgium, and make sure they know why, you never know they might try and attract us with lower fuel cost. However if we carry on the way we are going (all the infighting) we will never achieve anything.......Solidarity boaters!! its the only way.

If we had the French mentality would we all go to Weymouth in August to make our point.

just one point my marina fees went UP when I changed, marina's charge per foot regardless of propulsion method.

Should have got a smaller boat then mush! But Yea verily, solidarity amongst us all is the only way to fight back. I know that virtual arguments on these forums between raggies and mobo jockeys, but apart from a few exceptions it's mostly in good humour. put it all aside say I, get organised and shout loud.

[Captain Daz]

"Rubbish. The first fuel duty harmonisation directive was in 1992. Before that date, there would have been no derogation because there was nothing to be derogated from."



Can I put it differently ?

A reduced tax has been levied on diesel not for road use since around 1930,or possibly even earlier.This was originally to encourage mechanisation of our fishing and agricutural industries and make them more efficient producing at home the food we were importing from elsewhere.

It is not a 'reduced' tax. The tax on diesel for cars is called a Road Vehicle Tax, it is not 'reduced' or 'subsidised' it is simply 'different'.

Vegetable oil does not attract Road Vehicle Tax but start running your car with it and you then become liable for it (or it did the last time I looked, ages ago).

People are forgetting that the tax in question was originally implemented to tax road users.

[ian38_39]

The UK government has already recognised that there is no gain to be had by charging road tax on fuel for leisure boaters or red would be gone.

As such all they need is to be given a way of achieving this without upsetting our EU neighbours and without risking the fuel getting into the road.fuel supply line.

Starting to sound like a broken record but if it is not against EU regulations to use a marked duty paid fuel then all we need to do is introduce a marking not currently used in Europe for our marine fuel, which is already a dedicated fuel made specifically for marine use and is different to both traditional red, which has a high sulphur content and different to road fuel as it has no bio content.

I can't see how there is a law against duty paid marked fuel as as far as i am aware non of the red is duty free, it just has a lower rate attached.

There would be nothing stopping the UK setting the minimum EU duty rate for propulsion fuel, which if it was then charged at 100% would still be less than we currently pay for red at 60/40.

[rubberduck]

Should have got a smaller boat then mush! But Yea verily, solidarity amongst us all is the only way to fight back. I know that virtual arguments on these forums between raggies and mobo jockeys, but apart from a few exceptions it's mostly in good humour. put it all aside say I, get organised and shout loud.

I am all for sticking together & shouting load. Unfortunately , it is pretty small beer to me when put into context of running a business etc. It needs someone to organise things, someone involved in the boat industry. Show me such a person & I will give my full support.

[Searush]

The UK government has already recognised that there is no gain to be had by charging road tax on fuel for leisure boaters or red would be gone.

As such all they need is to be given a way of achieving this without upsetting our EU neighbours and without risking the fuel getting into the road.fuel supply line.

Starting to sound like a broken record but if it is not against EU regulations to use a marked duty paid fuel then all we need to do is introduce a marking not currently used in Europe for our marine fuel, which is already a dedicated fuel made specifically for marine use and is different to both traditional red, which has a high sulphur content and different to road fuel as it has no bio content.

I can't see how there is a law against duty paid marked fuel as as far as i am aware non of the red is duty free, it just has a lower rate attached.

There would be nothing stopping the UK setting the minimum EU duty rate for propulsion fuel, which if it was then charged at 100% would still be less than we currently pay for red at 60/40.

Oh dear, you just haven't read the threads have you? This is not directly related to the level of duty paid - if it was then receipts showing duty paid would satisfy the Belgians. That has been tried as a defence & failed.

It is because he fuel carries a dye marker (red in UK, green in Eire) that BELGIAN LAW prohibits. Now that Belgian law may be designed to prevent tax reduced BELGIAN marked fuel from being used by leisure boaters, but is being applied to any boats in Belgian waters, regardless of where they bought that fuel & what tax was paid on it.

So, unless you have the major bulk of your fuel undyed, stay out od Belgian waters (ie up to 12 miles offshore, I presume?)

[Chrusty 1]

I am all for sticking together & shouting load. Unfortunately , it is pretty small beer to me when put into context of running a business etc. It needs someone to organise things, someone involved in the boat industry. Show me such a person & I will give my full support.

Ah well, therein lies the rub don't it. I don't think it needs anyone in the boat industry, it just needs a bunch of like minded folk to give the ball a kick and get it rolling.

[ian38_39]

Oh dear, you just haven't read the threads have you? This is not directly related to the level of duty paid - if it was then receipts showing duty paid would satisfy the Belgians. That has been tried as a defence & failed.

It is because he fuel carries a dye marker (red in UK, green in Eire) that BELGIAN LAW prohibits. Now that Belgian law may be designed to prevent tax reduced BELGIAN marked fuel from being used by leisure boaters, but is being applied to any boats in Belgian waters, regardless of where they bought that fuel & what tax was paid on it.

So, unless you have the major bulk of your fuel undyed, stay out od Belgian waters (ie up to 12 miles offshore, I presume?)

Belgium are claiming that dyed fuel is not allowed to be used in private boats under EU regulations not their own laws. There seems to be some dispute over this but even if that is the case surely this is why we have mep's, it would fall at our mep's door to get an amendment to that wording so that it read red instead of dyed.
After all the UK is extremely concerned that despite excepting the reasoning for the need for bio free fuel in leisure boats, due to our high level of environmental concerns it is essential that this fuel can not be used in normal road vehicles.

[oceanfroggie]

Cruise the south coast of Ireland. No probs with the colour of fuel in your tanks. You can choose to buy white diesel or green and pay the duty difference later. Awesome scenery too on the SW coast: Skelligs, Blaskets, Fastnet, West Cork, Baltimore, Kinsale, Glandore, etc. You'll find only a warm welcome rather than officials chasing tourists.

Wow I can't believe the legs this thread got. One troll's post has generated endless pages.

[maby]

Cruise the south coast of Ireland. No probs with the colour of fuel in your tanks. You can choose to buy white diesel or green and pay the duty difference later. Awesome scenery too on the SW coast: Skelligs, Blaskets, Fastnet, West Cork, Baltimore, Kinsale, Glandore, etc. You'll find only a warm welcome rather than officials chasing tourists.

Wow I can't believe the legs this thread got. One troll's post has generated endless pages.

Well, it is still the winter and the days are a bit short for serious sailing, so we have to find something to amuse ourselves!

Would love to cruise Ireland, but it's a bit far from Kent for a long weekend (or even a long week)...

Got no particular wish to visit Belgium, but it does rather get in the way of a leisurely trip to Holland - quite a hike to get there in a straight line. The most worrying thing is the possibility that other countries will take this as a sign that we have given in and start doing the same as the Belgians. The Dutch did start to impose fines, then agreed to hold off till the commission ruled on the subject.