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Thread: What Chain?

  1. #11
    ukmctc's Avatar
    ukmctc is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by onesea View Post
    FIRSTLY I DID NOT ASK ABOUT ANCHORS



    As SWMOB pointed out we loose 1/2 knot when I go forward to prepare the mooring ropes. Why would we want to loose that speed for an anchor weight in the wrong position?

    .
    1/2 knot! wow......that'll make a differnce to getting in a berth or on a mooring....NOT.
    I don't think for that loss of speed you need to worry about it.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by onesea View Post
    FIRSTLY I DID NOT ASK ABOUT ANCHORS

    I only mentioned the type in case some one supplied any real horror stories. All I can read about fortresses is very good and as my next choice would be Danforth or other spade design....

    If I suggested a delta to SWMOB she would say its a plough why change?

    SWMOB likes to to be able to do these things, she thinks important she can do these things. If there is not to much weight she likes to do these things. Before long she will be sailing when I am at work

    We would go for a modern Spade style anchor Ronca or similar but without anchor windlass its difficult to lift over bow and stow.

    As for Anchor Windlass £700 pounds plus all that weight staying forward.
    As SWMOB pointed out we loose 1/2 knot when I go forward to prepare the mooring ropes. Why would we want to loose that speed for an anchor weight in the wrong position?

    Any suggestions or reasonable reasons not to have a Fortress please post.

    As for a light boat, yup an early raceing machine would like to keep her light, fast, basic and less maintainance .
    Dyslexia rools KO
    I may be wrong but not always

  3. #13
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    vyv_cox is online now Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by onesea View Post
    . All I can read about fortresses is very good

    Any suggestions or reasonable reasons not to have a Fortress please post.
    I suggest you need to do a little more research. It is widely stated that Fortress anchors have a problem resetting when the tide turns. This has happened twice to me and I will not anchor on mine overnight. It is an excellent kedge but as a bower? No thanks.
    Answers to some technical queries at http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com

  4. #14
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    As an example. On our 32ft cat (similar weight, probably greater windage) we used 20m of 8mm chain + 50m of 14mm octoplait spliced on. We used that combination for 10 years plus in coastal waters and it always proved perfectly adequate. Only if it was very blowy or deeper than average did we get to use the rope.
    In view of the reports about (non) resetting at tuirn of tide I would not have used a Danforth type anchor, we used a Delta.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by onesea View Post
    Any suggestions or reasonable reasons not to have a Fortress please post.

    As for a light boat, yup an early raceing machine would like to keep her light, fast, basic and less maintainance .
    As Vyv says a Fortress (or similar design anchor) is not at its best as a main anchor particularly in tidal waters.

    I was just trying to suggest that maybe the basis for your choice of ground tackle does not have the right priorities.

    Surely the starting point is what is the best design of anchor for general anchoring and then how is it best to deploy and handle it. A modern plough type anchor (like the Delta, but there are of course many others) is perhaps the best general purpose anchor and in the size that you need for your boat it is easily handled with a windlass and adequate all chain or mixed rode.

    If you are convinced that the Fortress is your preferred choice, you need to recognise its limitations and that the choice of chain/rope will be the same.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ukmctc View Post
    windlass 8-10mm gypsy new £400
    chain to fit gypsy all the way 60 mtrs £150
    Anchor Delta type 16kg hold most anywhere £49

    Go to BGD all delivered to the boat.
    £49? Should that read £149? RRP £169.
    Allan
    PS I agree with the comments about 16kg although I only have 40m of 8mm chain.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan View Post
    £49? Should that read £149? RRP £169.
    Allan
    PS I agree with the comments about 16kg although I only have 40m of 8mm chain.
    The key is in the phrase "Delta type" - there are cheap copies around at that price.

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    Apologies, but I can't read that SWMOB without visualizing this guy skippering a boat.


  9. #19
    onesea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ukmctc View Post
    1/2 knot! wow......that'll make a differnce to getting in a berth or on a mooring....NOT.
    I don't think for that loss of speed you need to worry about it.
    Lets say all that weight on the bow makes 1/4Knt difference that's a mile on a 4 hour passage. The boat is presently very much fresh from racing and although no longer a winning design we would like to keep her to her original concept to a greater extent.
    Her design is also such that a windlass would need strengthening chain lockers etc. We may still have an eye on racing her, but she is a compromise we wanted a fun, fast boat without to much domestic stuffs to go wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by vyv_cox View Post
    I suggest you need to do a little more research. It is widely stated that Fortress anchors have a problem resetting when the tide turns. This has happened twice to me and I will not anchor on mine overnight. It is an excellent kedge but as a bower? No thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranona View Post
    As Vyv says a Fortress (or similar design anchor) is not at its best as a main anchor particularly in tidal waters.

    I was just trying to suggest that maybe the basis for your choice of ground tackle does not have the right priorities.

    Surely the starting point is what is the best design of anchor for general anchoring and then how is it best to deploy and handle it. A modern plough type anchor (like the Delta, but there are of course many others) is perhaps the best general purpose anchor and in the size that you need for your boat it is easily handled with a windlass and adequate all chain or mixed rode.

    If you are convinced that the Fortress is your preferred choice, you need to recognise its limitations and that the choice of chain/rope will be the same.
    If I was that convinced I would not of asked the forums

    Presently the anchor is stowed under the berth in the main cabin and would take both of us to get it and the chain on deck. Without damaging us or the boat, this needs to change.

    We are looking to compromise, keep the chain and anchor in a basket below the forward hatch. So we can lift a basket on deck and have the rope come out of another basket kept below.

    With regard to resetting I have sailed with Danforths most of the time and never had a problem. There is a proviso or 2 here:
    1) We have always had all chain rode,
    2) If overnighting we normally extended to 4-1,
    3) If weather was up we would ensure we would check her as the tide turned. Its been so well drilled into me I get up when the tide turns regardless of weather (it normally a great time to be up, "no love I will be down in a minute, just going to wait for the tide to turn. Can you pass me up the remains of the Whisky/ Rum/ Wine coffee?") .
    4) I was also taught never to use astern to set the anchor in, walk it to the bottom extend to 2 1/2 WD on deck, wait till she is being brought up, then put 3-1 in water and check she is brought up (I believe the logic is that once it has a grip it will carry on digging. Dig it in 2 far and by the time the forces are great enough to turn it will never reset).

    I am not saying I am right defiantly right (Again if I thought I was I would not ask here) but hope you can understand where and why we are trying to reach a compromise. Light enough to lift but powerful enough to hold, in normal conditions.

    What would you guys say to the idea of:
    1) Keeping the big old CQR down low in the middle of the boat (where weight should be) with its 10m of chain and however much rope as a "hurricane anchor".
    2) Then get the Fortress as an every day anchor with the knowledge as the tide turns or there is weed we need to be careful.

    Most of our anchoring is done in winds under F5, I am not in the game of sleepless nights worrying about a boat. There are normally enough marinas around if the weather pipes up.

    If we get caught short and the weather turns foul and we can piggy back anchors or lie to two or what ever.

    And as for the post title 20mx8mm of Chain followed by 50m+ of rope sounds to be the consensus?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by onesea View Post
    If we get caught short and the weather turns foul and we can piggy back anchors or lie to two or what ever.
    Our CQR now lives in the locker as a spare but, before the Manson, we used to shackle the Fortress to the tripping eye of the CQR with about 10ft of chain and it never budged.

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