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  1. #121
    25931's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canoeman View Post
    Thanks for all of the info.

    Assume SSR No. supported by current Small Ships Certificate solves this problem for British flagged vessels?

    On a similar topic believe that all vessels that remain in Portuguese Water for over 183 days contiguously in a calender year are required to pay Circulation Tax, which is based on engine size. As a rule of thumb the tax is HP x €2.5 (i.e. 40HP engine = approx €100).

    Not a problem except to pay this tax you have to have a Fiscal Number & to get a Fiscal Number you have to have a Portuguese address (a boat/marina address is not acceptable). If you do not have a Portuguese address you can only get a Fiscal Number through a notary who will impose a standing charge + a surcharge on every transaction completed.

    You couldn't make it up! Solution - a 4 night mooring in Ayamonte at the beginning of July each year.

    You could also depart Portuguese waters for good - an option we are now seriously considering. At a cost of about €15,000 per annum to Portugal, just what their economy needs.
    Fiscal nº is less of a problem (you can use anyone's address) than proving engine size as this is not shown on SSR. The cheap and easy way is to nip across to Spain for an hour or even outside the 12m limit.
    Dum spiro spero. Cras ingens iterabimus aequor.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by 25931 View Post
    Fiscal nº is less of a problem (you can use anyone's address) than proving engine size as this is not shown on SSR. The cheap and easy way is to nip across to Spain for an hour or even outside the 12m limit.
    You need a marina receipt to prove you've been out of the country. We've been here 6 years now and have paid the 2 euro light dues for the first time. Although there may be some based in marinas, I haven't heard of anyone who has had to pay the cruising tax.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by canoeman View Post
    to get a Fiscal Number you have to have a Portuguese address (a boat/marina address is not acceptable).
    Boatyard address has worked for everyone applying for fiscal number in Faro.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamM376 View Post
    You need a marina receipt to prove you've been out of the country. We've been here 6 years now and have paid the 2 euro light dues for the first time. Although there may be some based in marinas, I haven't heard of anyone who has had to pay the cruising tax.
    I've been here over thirty years and have never been asked for proof when I've said that I've been to Spain although we always collected a receipt for the owner to show when we were being paid to take boats "out of the country". I've never been asked for cruising tax or light dues. I hope that my luck doesn't run out.
    Dum spiro spero. Cras ingens iterabimus aequor.

  5. #125
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    I bought an SSR Registered boat in Portugal several years ago, and before signing the dotted line, I visited the Capitania in Faro to find out the regulations "straight from the horses mouth", and to avoid any unpleasant surprises afterwards.
    Their only concern was payment of Light Duties which amounted to around 4€.per season.
    Apparently, the Circulation Tax applied only to post 1986 boats with engines larger than 26.8HP.
    Several months later, a Spanish charter boat dragged at anchor and damaged the side of my boat. He flatly refused to pay for the damage caused and so I had to refer to the Maritime Police. The first document that they asked to see was my 4€ Light Duty Certificate. None of my other pile of paperwork seemed to matter very much!

  6. #126
    Blue5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamM376 View Post
    You need a marina receipt to prove you've been out of the country. We've been here 6 years now and have paid the 2 euro light dues for the first time. Although there may be some based in marinas, I haven't heard of anyone who has had to pay the cruising tax.
    We paid the 2euros light dues, nearly split my sides laughing that it took the official 20 minutes to complete the forms put it on the computer and find the stamp and ink pad.

  7. #127
    Plomong is offline Registered User
    Location : Bilbo, Spain (Basque Country, actually)
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    Quote Originally Posted by canoeman View Post
    Thanks for all of the info.

    Assume SSR No. supported by current Small Ships Certificate solves this problem for British flagged vessels?

    On a similar topic believe that all vessels that remain in Portuguese Water for over 183 days contiguously in a calender year are required to pay Circulation Tax, which is based on engine size. As a rule of thumb the tax is HP x €2.5 (i.e. 40HP engine = approx €100).

    Not a problem except to pay this tax you have to have a Fiscal Number & to get a Fiscal Number you have to have a Portuguese address (a boat/marina address is not acceptable). If you do not have a Portuguese address you can only get a Fiscal Number through a notary who will impose a standing charge + a surcharge on every transaction completed.

    You couldn't make it up! Solution - a 4 night mooring in Ayamonte at the beginning of July each year.

    You could also depart Portuguese waters for good - an option we are now seriously considering. At a cost of about €15,000 per annum to Portugal, just what their economy needs.
    The rule, as I understand it, derives from some European "law" or regulation that states "183 days in the year", i.e. contiguous or not !!! So it may be that in Portugal the application of 183 days is not in perfect agreement with what was legally established, so beware !!!

    Plomong

  8. #128
    Plomong is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by canoeman View Post
    Believe the Imposto Único de Circulacåo (Circulation Tax) is a Portuguese home grown invention. If the 183 day contiguous element didn't apply there would be little point in the annual migration by foreign flagged vessels to Ayamonte in early July.

    Plomong's 183 day rule applies to foreign nationals, not their boats.

    If a foreign national is in Portugal for 183 days or more in a calender they are required to submit a Portuguese tax return covering their income & assets world-wide - in Portuguese! Provided they can prove that they have already paid tax elsewhere they will not be required to pay tax in Portugal.
    Thanks for the clarification.

    Plomong

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by canoeman View Post
    If a foreign national is in Portugal for 183 days or more in a calender they are required to submit a Portuguese tax return covering their income & assets world-wide - in Portuguese! Provided they can prove that they have already paid tax elsewhere they will not be required to pay tax in Portugal.
    But only if they know you are here

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by canoeman View Post
    True & to date, being on a boat, rather than in property, has worked but in a country so strapped for cash, how long before live-aboards are required to prove they have not been in Portugal for 183 days in the last or current calender year?

    Remember, rather than contiguous, this is accumulated time & not so easy to prove.
    The reality is that most of those living in Portugal from the UK at least do not have any income that is taxable in Portugal and if they become resident Portugal has to pay their pension at the UK rate, and provide more other services, so many expats would cost Portugal more if 'resident' than if they leave them alone to continue importing cash to spend in Portugal. Their first target will be the expats who are earning money in Portugal mainly throuigh informal arrangements but there are plenty of them I believe.
    Peter

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