Marine engines and white road diesel

**st599** · 28-02-12, 19:13

Originally Posted by GrahamM376

France, Spain & Portugal have been our cruising ground for the last 10 years or so. During that time we've used white road diesel in Mitsubishi K4D (Thornycroft 80D), and now in a more modern engine. During our travels we have never met anyone who has had problems using white and bear in mind that tens of thousands of "Europeans" have been using it as standard with every type and vintage of engine.

So you're saying that you have empirical evidence non-FAME diesel doesn't affect old diesel engines.

Doesn't answer the question placed.

**MartynG** · 28-02-12, 19:18

[QUOTE=Guapa;3409329]
Analogy: You don't seem to be able to get LRP petrol anymore, yet I still see classic cars on the road on a regular basis.

QUOTE]

I would say thats not a very good analogy . Really old car engines in vintage cars seem capable of running run on anything.
Petrol car engines from about the late 1950's up to the 80's were designed to run on leaded petrol. Any regularly used classic cars from the 60's or 70's will almost certainly have had cylinder head valve seat modifications to run on unleaded without risking engine damage.

**charles_reed** · 28-02-12, 20:02

Yanmar 3YM20 for 1620hrs.

Can't understand all this hype about red diesel - most boats have been running for the last 8 years on road diesel except in the UK, which makes them the minority.

**elton** · 28-02-12, 20:13

Might be more use to hear from anyone who's actually suffered any engine problems they can directly attribute to white diesel. I'd wager there are none.

**wizard** · 28-02-12, 20:20

Originally Posted by elton

Might be more use to hear from anyone who's actually suffered any engine problems they can directly attribute to white diesel. I'd wager there are none.

That was what I was hoping the result of this post would be.

If there are seal and crud release problems I would have thought that they would have shown up shortly after the Fame percentage went up recently.

**Seah0rse** · 28-02-12, 20:40

Originally Posted by maby

Since most marine diesel engines are derivatives of land-side engines of one kind or another, it seems unlikely that road diesel is going to damage the engine in any detectable way.

Agree. As far as I know, mine is a 50 year old marinised Tractor engine made by Ford, marinised by Parsons and still reliable and going strong. It has lasted a damn site longer than my wife's hi teck car and mine a Rx 8 (both about 6 years old and bugg.ered. Both Mazdas by the way... No connection, just satisfied/unsatisfied customer as appropriate!!!!!

**maxi77** · 28-02-12, 21:59

Originally Posted by wizard

That was what I was hoping the result of this post would be.

If there are seal and crud release problems I would have thought that they would have shown up shortly after the Fame percentage went up recently.

Interestingly in the Bongo community they only see the crud release problem when they add 50% veggie oil to already FAMEd diesel. Perhaps the 5% and now 7% do not have that much effect.

**haydude** · 29-02-12, 00:22

My Volvo Penta D2-55 run 750 hours since new on white diesel because in the Mediterranean there is no alternative. The engine now has done another 100h on red diesel and still runs like a dream.

**jwilson** · 29-02-12, 08:04

Originally Posted by Twister_Ken

History is not especially relevant here. Increased levels of bio-diesel have only been introduced into go-juice in the last year or so,

Biodiesel - FAME - has only relatively recently been added to road diesel in any quantity, though it started around 2000 with very low levels, which have since increased, I believe to about 5% in most fuel stations.

Until 2008 red diesel contained no FAME, but since then up to 7% has been allowed, though not all red diesel does contain this much, or any.

In 2000 a group of diesel injector equipment manufacturers including Bosch issued a statement about FAME, which included :

"During extensive field trials conducted by the FIE Manufacturers in collaboration with end-users, the following injection equipment and engine problems have been identified as being caused by these fuel characteristics:-
- Corrosion of FIE components. - Elastomeric seal failures
- Low pressure fuel system blockage - Fuel injector spray hole blockage
- Increased dilution and polymerisation of engine sump oil
- Pump seizures due to high fuel viscosity at low temperatures
- Increased injection pressure"

From the point of view of yacht users, the statement also said "The incidence of these effects is likely to be increased when the engine is in irregular use, in applications such as stand-by generator units, automatic plant and seasonally used vehicles". They could well have added yachts.....

A copy of the full document is at http://www.isuzuengines.com/pdf/FIE_FAME_Position.pdf - reading it you would not want bio-diesel in the tank of a
yacht where a tankful of fuel might last two years usage.

Quite apart from the potential of FAME to attack engine components, it is MUCH more likely to create ideal conditions for "diesel bug". http://www.conidia.com/downloads/diesel-bug-the-basics.pdf is a good reference to the subject.

The problems of yacht usage are very different to road usage. Most diesel cars and trucks are bought as diesels specifically for high-mileage use. It's rare that my car's diesel tank is not refilled from near empty at least every fortnight. On a grossly underpowered previous yacht I once put no diesel in the tank for 4 years, though I now use rather more fuel with a modern diesel, and less time to sail. Also I now normally keep the tank full if possible.