Response from Chloe Smith (Red Diesel)

[Sea_Spray]

I have mailed my Belgian courtesy flag to the Belgian Embassy with a covering note explaining that I will no longer need it.

Brilliant - well done sir!

[GlennG]

How about talking to your marinas about their attitude to the red/white divide? Some of them may well see the need to provide white as well (or instead of) red diesel. Particularly those marinas that see a lot of EU traffic in both directions and those with big thirsty mobo customers who channel hop. Once one opens up on the South coast, watch it become a magnet for fuel sales.
As Cloe says, it's a commercial issue now.
In Belgium they were simply told to steam clean their tanks and sell only white. They did just that. Fishermen et Al hardly ever used the marinas' pumps anyway.
Although the French and Dutch are not following Belgium's hard line, you can bet their C&E are watching developments carefully. Their yachtsmen will be returning home with red otherwise.

I would imagine that the days of red in the south east are getting numbered.

The main issue I would have thought is the number of mobo owners who consume large quantities of fuel and thus make a large saving with the 60/40 split. I'm sure they'd tend to favour red diesel given the choice.

Raggies, OTOH, use little fuel so make up a minority of fuel sales by volume.

Thus I would like to see some form of mandating of white diesel especially where the "vast majority" of users are leisure. For example Shotley, Leavington, Woolverstone, Ipswich x2 all flog red when few if any commercial boats buy it.

The real challenge is locations where there's a larger proportion of commercial users. In those cases, the 'fudge' would be OK. Although it will be troublesome to foreign visitors, but even that could be worked around if, say, some form of subsidy from a tourism budget was used to finance a white pump, e.g. a one-off grant.

[RAI]

...The main issue I would have thought is the number of mobo owners who consume large quantities of fuel and thus make a large saving with the 60/40 split. I'm sure they'd tend to favour red diesel given the choice. ...

Let's hear it from the south coast mobo's? If channel hopping is their game, then the fines will be proportional to the tank size. How would they trade-off fuel saving verses risk of fine? I get the impression they could have the same cost white for red by cruising at 19 knots instead of 20.

[maby]

In our marina, sail outnumbers steam many to one - pehaps we can convince the management to hold a referendum - I think a switch to white would win easily.

[Sea_Spray]

The main issue I would have thought is the number of mobo owners who consume large quantities of fuel and thus make a large saving with the 60/40 split. I'm sure they'd tend to favour red diesel given the choice.

Raggies, OTOH, use little fuel so make up a minority of fuel sales by volume.

Odd, isn't it, that raggies can heat their boat and charge their batteries so much more efficiently that mobo's...

[maby]

Odd, isn't it, that raggies can heat their boat and charge their batteries so much more efficiently that mobo's...

Well, Miao! I think most of it goes to power the champagne chiller!

[Beadle]

"On a boat that has been legally able to use red the traces may well be allowable"

With all respect - this does not help

"May well be" is not really meaningfull in legal terms.

Either a thing is legal or it is not

If you are to be fined a 4 figure sum you need to be very sure of what is and isn't legal.

The fact is we pay tax on the 60% of red diesel so its legal. For other countries to say despite the tax we say its illegal because its a certain colour is nonsense. It gives the ability to impose fines and ultimately confiscate many thousands of pounds in property without any legal process od any appeal.

It is pure fascism.

[sailorman]

"On a boat that has been legally able to use red the traces may well be allowable"

With all respect - this does not help

"May well be" is not really meaningfull in legal terms.

Either a thing is legal or it is not

If you are to be fined a 4 figure sum you need to be very sure of what is and isn't legal.

The fact is we pay tax on the 60% of red diesel so its legal. For other countries to say despite the tax we say its illegal because its a certain colour is nonsense. It gives the ability to impose fines and ultimately confiscate many thousands of pounds in property without any legal process od any appeal.

It is pure fascism.

we in fact pay tax on all of it BUT at differing levels

[maby]

"...

The fact is we pay tax on the 60% of red diesel so its legal. For other countries to say despite the tax we say its illegal because its a certain colour is nonsense. It gives the ability to impose fines and ultimately confiscate many thousands of pounds in property without any legal process od any appeal.

It is pure fascism.

Unfortunately, a previous government signed us up to the Treaty of Rome which, with all the other treaties and directives that have come along since then, says that it is not legal. It is pure EU federalism - which can be difficult to distinguish from fascism sometimes!

[Grumpybear]

Unfortunately, a previous government signed us up to the Treaty of Rome which, with all the other treaties and directives that have come along since then, says that it is not legal. It is pure EU federalism - which can be difficult to distinguish from fascism sometimes!

given that the EU was designed by communists, that simply goes to show that the difference between fascism and socialism is just semantic.