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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Angry And now the RYA wash their hands of it ...

    I watched the RYA interview. I'm not sure quite what I expected Gus to say, but I was disappointed with the apparent justification/approval he gave for the current position. He sounded like a supporter of the status quo and I was left with the impression that they consider the current position w.r.t. mainland Europe as acceptable.

    So, after an exchange of emails with Gus, I am now convinced that the RYA have little or no intention to argue or lobby for any changes to the supply of fuel and that they consider the supply of red as an immutable requirement.

    As some of the exchanges were quite lengthy, I've set out one of his responses below, together with a summary of the point to which he was responding.

    I asked about the fact that it'll take me approximately 1.5 years to adequately dilute my red to a legally acceptable limit.

    Quote Originally Posted by My Question
    Essentially it stems from my having a burn rate of 100L per season, not dropping to below 20L for safety reasons, and then having to refill, burn and fill again. All up that process would take me around 1.5 years. If I sail to, say, the Channel Isles on my summer cruise and then back to Dover and need fuel there, I would be forced to make multiple trips on foot to a petrol station (assuming one is nearby), or fill with red. One fill with red and I'm busted for another 1.5 years... How does that equate to a ready supply of suitable fuel for me?
    and Gus' reply (copied entirely) I take to mean that he agrees that Belgium is off limits to UK sailors who are not prepared to flout Belgian law
    Quote Originally Posted by Gus Lewis' Response
    I agree that, in your particular circumstances, if you are unwilling to take the risk of being fined in Belgium then for all practical purposes you would need to avoid visiting Belgian waters.
    "My particular circumstances" being the same as most sailing boats who may sail to Belgium. I think this is an unacceptable position for the RYA to take.

    I also asked about many other issues. E.g.
    • How do I get proper, reliable supplies of white?
    • I asked what the RYA's view on filling from cans was (because of the associated spillage risk and the fact I have to put to sea to fill)

    None of which he answered despite being asked each twice.

    Putting aside my preferred solution of banning red and requiring leisure users to use white, I feel that the RYA should be campaigning for some kind of improved situation (whatever it is) rather than seeming to agree with the unsustainable bodge we have at the moment.
    Proudly supporting our troops. http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/

  2. #2
    Burnham Bob's Avatar
    Burnham Bob is offline Registered User
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    i thought he said that you could contact the marina in belgium and get clearance in advance. ostend at anchor has got blanket clearance for UK boats to arrive with red diesel in their tanks. i'm trying to find out if i can get it by calling the marina or mailing them in advance of crossing to ostend.

  3. #3
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    I may be wrong but not always

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by sailorman View Post
    He's going to love you for this.

    www.guapa.pn
    Be realistic - aim for the impossible!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guapa View Post
    He's going to love you for this.

    he might get some overtime from it
    I may be wrong but not always

  6. #6
    wklein's Avatar
    wklein is offline Registered User
    Location : Dartmouth, Devon
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    I am prepared to pay the extra duty on fuel (i don't want to) but am worried about our local fuel barge. If they have to start charging road prices (or in fact appreciably higher due to the added inconvenience and reduced throughput) Sailors will simply fill up with jerry cans from petrol stations (we are a bit of a cheap lot down here). And the fuel barge will still need to hold red diesel for fishing boats and other commercial craft. Which will be very difficult and expensive to set up. Powerboats may be exception but if you could save a couple of hundred quid by filling from petrol station up the road wouldn't you? Can't see them adding white diesel tank and getting sufficient business to keep it recoup investment. If i were them id give it up.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by wklein View Post
    I am prepared to pay the extra duty on fuel (i don't want to) but am worried about our local fuel barge. If they have to start charging road prices (or in fact appreciably higher due to the added inconvenience and reduced throughput) Sailors will simply fill up with jerry cans from petrol stations (we are a bit of a cheap lot down here). And the fuel barge will still need to hold red diesel for fishing boats and other commercial craft. Which will be very difficult and expensive to set up. Powerboats may be exception but if you could save a couple of hundred quid by filling from petrol station up the road wouldn't you? Can't see them adding white diesel tank and getting sufficient business to keep it recoup investment. If i were them id give it up.
    But it's simple, isn't it? Allow only white diesel to be sold. We yotties mourn the passing of a terrific perk but accept that times have changed. The fishermen fill up at the full price then claim a rebate via their VAT returns or some other method as yet to be invented. Then your fuel barge is safe and will do as much business as before, possibly at a better margin.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldvarnish View Post
    But it's simple, isn't it? Allow only white diesel to be sold. We yotties mourn the passing of a terrific perk but accept that times have changed. The fishermen fill up at the full price then claim a rebate via their VAT returns or some other method as yet to be invented. Then your fuel barge is safe and will do as much business as before, possibly at a better margin.
    Hmmm, the trouble with this rebating idea for commercial users is that it requires HMRC to create a whole new set of processes - not something that they are going to be happy to do in the current economic climate when all expenditure on new systems is being frowned upon.

  9. #9
    PaulGooch's Avatar
    PaulGooch is offline Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by maby View Post
    Hmmm, the trouble with this rebating idea for commercial users is that it requires HMRC to create a whole new set of processes - not something that they are going to be happy to do in the current economic climate when all expenditure on new systems is being frowned upon.
    It also means commercial users would have to pay duty and VAT on the fuel and then wait three months to claim it all back. Commercial red is circa 70p a litre, white would be at least double that.

    I doubt any commercial users want to pay double for their fuel and wait months for a rebate. Unless some of the yacht owners who use a pint of diesel once a year going to Belgium want to pay the interest on the overdraft.
    Jeanneau Merry Fisher 805 For Sale. www.gooch.co.uk

  10. #10
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    I can't be bothered to read through umpteen pages.

    1. Start a boycott all Belgian products thread. (Though I'm still thinking about what they are)

    2. Don't go there.

    3. You tight lugger, clean your tank fill with white and get a 75 trailer and 30 IBC off ebay

    Just shows the mentality 1.5 years to clear the tank of cherry. Thats about 50 extra in diesel over 1.5 years and that on a 40K yacht. I liveaboard and have a seperate heating tank, If a bit of diesel goes in the river, they will have to live with it, but with the right gear, it's not rocket science not to spill any
    I'm more Teddybear than Werebear
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