Astute Sub grounding 'catalogue of errors'

[uxb]

Totally agree.

I reckon that Mrs Bav and I could have handled the situation better given a chart plotter up on deck and a means of comms. to whoever was below operating the controls.

Viz , time of day, experience, fatigue ... whatever you want to bring into the equation is irrelevant.

Your boat is at A ... you need to get it to B without going aground. How difficult can that be?

With the greatest respect, there is a world of difference between you and Mrs Bavon a wee yacht and driving a ferkin great submarine when you are exhausted,stressed,over worked and under great pressure, in the dark and being ordered to do something.
You know not of which you speak.

[kyleview]

I have been out under the bridge a few times in the last 6 years in pretty windy conditions. It requires some BASIC navigation skills to go between the Red and Green buoys and then head up to Raasay or Plockton even in lumpy conditions.

That said last year I was more aware of avoiding the bank after such a plonker could put a submarine on it! It makes you wonder how they are trained - I don't look at the depth sounder a lot, but I do look at charts and the chartplotter before proceeding.

In this day and age it takes years of investigation (and massive legal fees) to come up with nothing - just avoid saying the blinding obvious and confuse everyone.

Astute has been going up and down outside my house daily this week and they still do not know how much it cost to repair - either it's out of control with a damaged rudder / fin, or the UK chief submarine officer is another plonker which maybe he is.

[uxb]

I have been out under the bridge a few times in the last 6 years in pretty windy conditions. It requires some BASIC navigation skills to go between the Red and Green buoys and then head up to Raasay or Plockton even in lumpy conditions.

That said

Tried it in a submarine have we? I think you'd find it a bit of a challenge..

[maxi77]

Having spent my time in the bridge of a submarine, it is a far cry from trying to navigate a yacht from the cockpit with a plotter etc all in view. All you have is a compass repeater and comms with the control room, no chart table no plotting instruments and you cant just nip below and look at the chart. The guy was probably short of sleep and under pressure as were the rest of the crew, his comms with the rest of the boat were dodgy and others who should have been doing the job were too busy.

Last time I was in that area in a boat I was averaging 4 hours sleep every 24 I suspect those guys had not managed any better for some time

[Twister_Ken]

Having spent my time in the bridge of a submarine, it is a far cry from trying to navigate a yacht from the cockpit with a plotter etc all in view. All you have is a compass repeater and comms with the control room, no chart table no plotting instruments and you cant just nip below and look at the chart. The guy was probably short of sleep and under pressure as were the rest of the crew, his comms with the rest of the boat were dodgy and others who should have been doing the job were too busy.

Last time I was in that area in a boat I was averaging 4 hours sleep every 24 I suspect those guys had not managed any better for some time

Good job we're not at war then, conditions would be much tougher. As to hitting the bricks, it seems as if there was no passage plan and no one keeping a plot. Duh!

[kyleview]

Tried it in a submarine have we? I think you'd find it a bit of a challenge..

Not at all - large seaway and blinding obvious. Daily I see off our house in Largs the crew changes from the new Type 45 destroyers and all goes to plan in suitable depths.

[kyleview]

Having spent my time in the bridge of a submarine, it is a far cry from trying to navigate a yacht from the cockpit with a plotter etc all in view. All you have is a compass repeater and comms with the control room, no chart table no plotting instruments and you cant just nip below and look at the chart. The guy was probably short of sleep and under pressure as were the rest of the crew, his comms with the rest of the boat were dodgy and others who should have been doing the job were too busy.

Last time I was in that area in a boat I was averaging 4 hours sleep every 24 I suspect those guys had not managed any better for some time

Seems like a pretty poor ROI when we only spend £20/30K putting electronics on a yacht but £200/300M on a sub costing £3000M which cannot see a simple sandbank on it's charts - but that's what we get (don't get) for our taxes and the incompetence of the people who spend it.

[Bosun Higgs]

Tried it in a submarine have we? I think you'd find it a bit of a challenge..

Why. Please explain why its harder to avoid a marked bank in a submarine on the surface than in a yacht. Draft is one obvious issue but what else?

[Bav34]

With the greatest respect, there is a world of difference between you and Mrs Bavon a wee yacht and driving a ferkin great submarine when you are exhausted,stressed,over worked and under great pressure, in the dark and being ordered to do something.
You know not of which you speak.

Of course I can see the difference between driving a sub and navving a small yacht but I still maintain that something as low tech as a £300 chart plotter keeps me off the rocks around Brittany, and if that's not available on a billion pound (?) sub then 1. It should be, 2. If for operational reasons it can't be another system should be in place. That can only be the crews fault regardless of exhaustion stress etc. Isnt this what these guys are trained to cope with?

[uxb]

Of course I can see the difference between driving a sub and navving a small yacht but I still maintain that something as low tech as a £300 chart plotter keeps me off the rocks around Brittany, and if that's not available on a billion pound (?) sub then 1. It should be, 2. If for operational reasons it can't be another system should be in place. That can only be the crews fault regardless of exhaustion stress etc. Isnt this what these guys are trained to cope with?

As I said,you - and the other yotty know-it-alls know not of which you speak.

Think of one small point. These boats are built for stealth under the sea. The conning tower is exposed to the sea - at depth..you can't fit electronics there. If its doing a sneaky on the surface you CAN NOT have any light emitting devices there so an iPad is out too. Work the rest out for your self- if you can't then my simple explanation will be too much for such a small mind.