Page 6 of 13 FirstFirst 12345678910111213 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 123
  1. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    9,291

    Default

    As I said earlier bought my boat via a broker following two weekends looking including two overnight stops. There were a couple of boats advertised privately but unfortunately their owners could not make it on the weekends I was down there so could not look at them.
    It is okay to sell privately but it does mean you may have to be available or lose a potential sale. Perhaps if you live close to the boat it makes sense.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    40

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jordanbasset View Post
    As I said earlier bought my boat via a broker following two weekends looking including two overnight stops. There were a couple of boats advertised privately but unfortunately their owners could not make it on the weekends I was down there so could not look at them.
    It is okay to sell privately but it does mean you may have to be available or lose a potential sale. Perhaps if you live close to the boat it makes sense.
    Hi Neil

    Thank you for your input on this issue. I quite understand the slant that you put on this potentially stressful exercise.
    I actually sold my last boat and, because I was an RYA member, I used the RYA suggestions within their website to enable me to sell the boat with a minimum of problems etc, even using the RYA Bill of Sale.
    However, there is a lot of pressure from the marine industries to hand over your money to a broker because this will remove most of the headaches normally encountered in the pursuit of a replacement vessel.
    The original point that I made in this thread is highlighted in the terrible blunders that the broker made in my situation. One example...The boat was described as being "Professionally built by Pennington Yachts". Upon our viewing, we also had the benefit of meeting with the owner. She categorically stated that her late husband had built the boat - he was a road builder. When I questioned the broker about this "mis-description" he then admitted that it was only the hull that had been professionally laid up. There were lots more issues....

    The BRBA carried out a so-called investigation, eventually came back to me and found no wrong with the Broker. Instead, they blamed me for liaising with 2 separate Brokers on this vessel.
    Hence why I am suggesting that an independent body should oversee these situations. It should not be necessary to have to go to court with issues such as this.

    Thanks again, Neil

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    40

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by saltylegs View Post
    I have emailed broker andwill keep you informed
    Thank you and we look forward to viewing the info.

  4. #54
    BobPrell is offline Registered User
    Location : Brisbane, Australia
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,209

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glynny View Post

    Hence why I am suggesting that an independent body should oversee these situations. It should not be necessary to have to go to court with issues such as this.
    Glynny,

    I sympathize with your situation and realize you have a lot of evidence of problems others have had. Nevertheless, I, and I suspect Tranona if not others, am still mystified about who you think the independant body should be to oversee yacht brokerage. Not the government and not a court.

    My view is that even when governments set up bodies to supervise problematic industries, they appoint people who have experience in those areas, so mining executives supervise mining, builders supervise building and so on. They usually end up making sure the industry survives, not individual customers.
    A l'eau. C'est l'heure.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    40

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobPrell View Post
    Glynny,

    I sympathize with your situation and realize you have a lot of evidence of problems others have had. Nevertheless, I, and I suspect Tranona if not others, am still mystified about who you think the independant body should be to oversee yacht brokerage. Not the government and not a court.

    My view is that even when governments set up bodies to supervise problematic industries, they appoint people who have experience in those areas, so mining executives supervise mining, builders supervise building and so on. They usually end up making sure the industry survives, not individual customers.
    Yes, I quite agree with what you are saying however, the main thrust of my message in this thread is to heighten people's awareness to this "inconsistent" industry - that of Marine Broking. Surely, it is time to put regulations in place to govern this industry. Regulations that insist that participants (brokers) have to operate under licence and must qualify through a scheme of instruction and exams? This will go some way to improve what is, currently, a free for all for anyone who wants to make a few quid (or a lot of quids) on the back of unsuspecting buyers.

    Many years ago, my industry decided to get it's act together and now, after said many years, the construction industry has improved beyond recognition, Health & Safety is now paramount, quality standards have improved 100%, buying a house has become full of choice and is actually quite a pleasant experience. It is overseen by several organisations that work in harmony with government organisations. Plus, training colleges now offer every trade and construction profession as an NVQ. I appreciate that any system is not fool-proof and issues will slip the net in some cases but, from a person who is working within, it is now a pleasure and a priveledge to be able to proclaim that I am employed in this industry.

    Can the same be said about the marine broking industry?

    Thank you for your valid comments.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    3,657

    Default

    Ill informed posts are very destructive to the 100's of hard working and 100% professionals in the marine industry.

    They make my blood boil.

    But then its easy to sit behind a computer and tar an entire industry with the wrong brush, irrespective of the damage you may be doing to legitimate and 100% legal businesses in the process isn't it?

    In 2012 http://www.ybdsa.co.uk/ is celebrating it's 100th year

    All Yacht Broker Members are required to follow http://www.abya.co.uk/code.html

    Yacht brokers also have to adhere to the following:

    We are regulated by the misrepresentation act of 1967
    Unfair contract terms act of 1977
    Sale of goods act of 1979
    contracts (rights of third parties) act of 1999
    Money Laundering Regulations of 2007
    If offering marine finance are required to have a consumer credit license from the FSA.

    and will fall foul of local trading standards and VAT officers for other offences.

    You are taking isolated incidences and via a public well read world wide form taring all unfairly.

    Cheers

    "Do not put your trust with any broker." you said.

    Care to back up that statement?
    Last edited by jonic; 25-04-12 at 15:38.
    John Rodriguez Yachts. Cruising & Bluewater Yachts www.jryachts.com

  7. #57
    Jim@sea is offline Registered User
    Location : Near Windermere
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,789

    Default

    Forum Heading. Caution when buying from a Broker.
    Is there any difference between buying a boat from a broker and buying a car from a Car Auction. None that I can see. (and I was a manager of 2 Car Auctions)
    In both cases you are not the client. The Broker or Auction have no responsibility to ensure that what you are intending to buy is roadworthy (Seaworthy) whether the engine is running correctly, whether any trailer supplied with the boat is of the correct size to legally carry the boat. The only thing that they do is to find out if the boat (or car) has finance.
    Regarding condition they rely on whatever the seller tells them. Sometimes the person who writes the description is not even the person who took the photo.
    Where GLINNY says "I always considered that the customer was king" you are right.
    BUT you are not the customer. To a Boat Broker the person selling the boat is the customer. The boat owner pays the commission, not you.
    I have been looking at a few boats over the last few weeks. Where mass produced boats have flooded the market it is easy to value some boats as there are a lot of one type and similar years. So 1 boat I viewed was 1000 too dear and I suggested that if the owner reduced by 500 and the Broker reduced his commission from 1320 by 500 I would buy the boat. But they did not want to know, so I have now bought privatly from a private advert.
    The Internet makes boat advertising far easier for private sales. Why use a broker.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    3,657

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim@sea View Post
    Forum Heading. Caution when buying from a Broker.
    Is there any difference between buying a boat from a broker and buying a car from a Car Auction. None that I can see. (and I was a manager of 2 Car Auctions)
    In both cases you are not the client. The Broker or Auction have no responsibility to ensure that what you are intending to buy is roadworthy (Seaworthy) whether the engine is running correctly, whether any trailer supplied with the boat is of the correct size to legally carry the boat. The only thing that they do is to find out if the boat (or car) has finance.
    Regarding condition they rely on whatever the seller tells them. Sometimes the person who writes the description is not even the person who took the photo.
    Where GLINNY says "I always considered that the customer was king" you are right.
    BUT you are not the customer. To a Boat Broker the person selling the boat is the customer. The boat owner pays the commission, not you.
    I have been looking at a few boats over the last few weeks. Where mass produced boats have flooded the market it is easy to value some boats as there are a lot of one type and similar years. So 1 boat I viewed was 1000 too dear and I suggested that if the owner reduced by 500 and the Broker reduced his commission from 1320 by 500 I would buy the boat. But they did not want to know, so I have now bought privatly from a private advert.
    The Internet makes boat advertising far easier for private sales. Why use a broker.
    Thats why you are supposed to have a survey.

    That's why the brokers contract (unlike a car auction) allows you to have the boat taken off the market and not be gazumped (like in a house sale) whilst paying for your survey -and then have your deposit money 100% refunded if there are significant problems.

    http://www.jryachts.com/guidetobuyingaboat.html

    You use a reputable broker because he wont take the boat on without 100% intact paperwork history. (My rejection files are full of private sales with totally incorrect paperwork-some where the new owner does not even legally own the boat).
    Last edited by jonic; 25-04-12 at 16:07.
    John Rodriguez Yachts. Cruising & Bluewater Yachts www.jryachts.com

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    40

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jonic View Post
    Ill informed posts are very destructive to the 100's of hard working and 100% professionals in the marine industry.

    They make my blood boil.

    But then its easy to sit behind a computer and tar an entire industry with the wrong brush, irrespective of the damage you may be doing to legitimate and 100% legal businesses in the process isn't it?

    In 2012 http://www.ybdsa.co.uk/ is celebrating it's 100th year

    All Yacht Broker Members are required to follow http://www.abya.co.uk/code.html

    Yacht brokers also have to adhere to the following:

    We are regulated by the misrepresentation act of 1967
    Unfair contract terms act of 1977
    Sale of goods act of 1979
    contracts (rights of third parties) act of 1999
    Money Laundering Regulations of 2007
    If offering marine finance are required to have a consumer credit license from the FSA.

    and will fall foul of local trading standards and VAT officers for other offences.

    You are taking isolated incidences and via a public well read world wide form taring all unfairly.

    Cheers

    "Do not put your trust with any broker." you said.

    Care to back up that statement?
    I resent your last comment and would ask you to withdraw the comments about my right to have an opinion based upon both, personal experiences and , other like minded people who have communicated with me through this media.

    With regards to TRUST, surely you know that, whatever profession you are in, you have to earn this before you can sustain a trading partnership. This has always been the case.

    Jonic, as good as your website might be, are you opposed to my suggestions for the Marine Broker industry to become fully trained and examined?
    If so, why??

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    40

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jonic View Post
    Thats why you are supposed to have a survey.

    That's why the brokers contract (unlike a car auction) allows you to have the boat taken off the market and not be gazumped (like in a house sale) whilst paying for your survey -and then have your deposit money 100% refunded if there are significant problems.

    http://www.jryachts.com/guidetobuyingaboat.html

    You use a reputable broker because he wont take the boat on without 100% intact paperwork history. (My rejection files are full of private sales with totally incorrect paperwork-some where the new owner does not even legally own the boat).
    How do you judge who is a reputable broker. This advise is fine however, you need to have a standard to which all brokers can be judged in order that the "customer" "boat buyer", or whatever you want to name him/her can then satisfy him/herself that they are dealing with a "reputable" broker.
    How can you guarantee this reputation?

    Further, and in my case, how do you minimise "mis-descriptions" on vessels by Brokers? In my case, I was misled by a so-called reputable broker.
    Are you suggesting that all brokers are worthy? If not, how do you suggest that boat buyers can come to any conclusion about choice of broker?

Page 6 of 13 FirstFirst 12345678910111213 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •