One vs two masts

[Seadog17]

We bought a ketch so Jane could easily handle the split sail plan. As said they are reaching machines but not too bad upwind if you follow Searush's advice about the mizzen. Downwind we use a reefed mizzen and poled out twin twistle rig headsails.

I also agree with Searush about how sad it would be if there weren't 'old fashioned' designs around, most are very pretty. I never seen a pretty AWB they all look much the same unfortunately.

One of the problems I’ve found, with being a fairly new forumite, are the terms like AWB that are used and I have no idea what the hell they mean and am too embarrassed to ask. Perhaps a “sticky” could be started with a reference list of them for the newbie?

I get the feeling though, that saying all AWB’s look the same, might not endear you a lot of people.

Meanwhile, thanks for all the tips, there were some good ones there, setting the sails, alternative uses for the mizzen, etc. My only problem is that, at the moment, I can’t see most of the pictures until I get home next week and get full web access, (unlike the rest of the North Sea fleets our company doesn't believe in crew welfare).

Totally agree with Searush as well, it would be a lot worse a world without the old classics. Spent a lot of time and money on one but have run out of time and now it has to go if ever I'm going to enjoy my new boat. Chainsaw beckoning, although I'll try one more time to give it away before I start.

[johna]

Dear Kipper, have you tried adjusting the main & mizzen sheets much? The mizzen, being so far aft, does have a significant impact on balance & I find that while it is best sheeted harder than the main when on the wind, slacking the mizzen sheet slightly will remove any tendency to weather helm when off the wind.

As a cruiser rather than a racer, balancing the rig to achieve easy sailing on a given course is preferable to trying to maximise speed (which may cock up my arrival time for the many tide gates in my sailing area).

Mind you, the Pentland mizzen is tiny at about 70sq ft, maybe yours is much bigger.

Searush

Is your mizzen boom sheeted from the centre of the stern or on a triangular rig? I often try to set the mizzen slightly to windward to improve on the wind performance. Sometimes it seems to work and other times not so good.

[Searush]

Searush

Is your mizzen boom sheeted from the centre of the stern or on a triangular rig? I often try to set the mizzen slightly to windward to improve on the wind performance. Sometimes it seems to work and other times not so good.

Double block on the boom & a block on each side of the aft cabin gives me a self-centreing 4:1 purchase. I don't see how sheeting to windward would help with the mizzen as it has virtually no twist so it would just be producing drag.

The main is sometimes "oversheeted" to reduce twist, this means that the bottom of teh sail is providing "negative drive" or drag, but the increased efficiency of the upper part of the sail gains more than enough power to overcome this drag.

[Phoenix of Hamble]

We bought a ketch so Jane could easily handle the split sail plan. As said they are reaching machines but not too bad upwind if you follow Searush's advice about the mizzen. Downwind we use a reefed mizzen and poled out twin twistle rig headsails.

I also agree with Searush about how sad it would be if there weren't 'old fashioned' designs around, most are very pretty. I never seen a pretty AWB they all look much the same unfortunately.

That's pretty much why we bought a ketch too... Our main is considerably smaller than on our previous boat, even though the boat is 5' longer.

That 'n she looks luverly!

[dancrane]

I have no idea what the hell terms like AWB mean and am too embarrassed to ask...

...(but) I get the feeling that saying all AWB’s look the same, might not endear you (to) a lot of people.

Seadog, I hope you've discovered since posting earlier, that AWB means Average White Boat? Actually that's far less cryptic than 'MAB', used for the opposite (or just the four-decade older) variety: the Mouldy Auld Boat...

...as to derogatory comments about AWBs, their owners are ever-ready to defend their choices. In fact they're often pre-emptively vociferous, presumably because they recognise the soulless banality of their safe, white, sensibly efficient, caravan-charisma sloops...

...sorry, getting carried away there.

I wonder if, to sailing kids, the mizzens of yawls and ketches are equivalent to the spare wheel on the boot-lids of old cars...

...because even though there was every good reason for the old layouts of cars and cruising yachts, designers' competitive pursuit of efficiency overrode style by degrees, knocking off most of the interesting corners rather than maintaining individuality.

So now, the market presents us with roomy, compact, frugal, lamentably similar, forgettable cars and likewise, dozens of bulbous lightweight white two-sail single-masters. On the road, money spent for fun, generally goes on coupes, convertibles and classics...

...yet, if we sail for pleasure, it seems sad that so many boat-buyers plump for the floating equivalent of Vauxhall Vectras...

...no wonder AWB owners are often so noisily insecure......sorry! Sorry. Mustn't say that. Not politically-correct.

[Seadog17]

Seadog, I hope you've discovered since posting earlier, that AWB means Average White Boat? Actually that's far less cryptic than 'MAB', used for the opposite (or just the four-decade older) variety: the Mouldy Auld Boat...

...as to derogatory comments about AWBs, their owners are ever-ready to defend their choices. In fact they're often pre-emptively vociferous, presumably because they recognise the soulless banality of their safe, white, sensibly efficient, caravan-charisma sloops...

...sorry, getting carried away there.

I wonder if, to sailing kids, the mizzens of yawls and ketches are equivalent to the spare wheel on the boot-lids of old cars...

...because even though there was every good reason for the old layouts of cars and cruising yachts, designers' competitive pursuit of efficiency overrode style by degrees, knocking off most of the interesting corners rather than maintaining individuality.

So now, the market presents us with roomy, compact, frugal, lamentably similar, forgettable cars and likewise, dozens of bulbous lightweight white two-sail single-masters. On the road, money spent for fun, generally goes on coupes, convertibles and classics...

...yet, if we sail for pleasure, it seems sad that so many boat-buyers plump for the floating equivalent of Vauxhall Vectras...

...no wonder AWB owners are often so noisily insecure......sorry! Sorry. Mustn't say that. Not politically-correct.

Dancrane.

Thank you very much for the explanation of the abbreviations. Much appreciated and hopefully, will help me ease my way into the general chit-chat of the more experienced posters/sailors.

I have also noted your thoughts on non-ketches. And I think I’d better say no more on that.

Thanks again.