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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by EugeneR View Post
    To clarify, if a product fails, is the manufacturer liable or would it be the entity that sold it to me?
    It's the entity that sold it to you. Your contract is with them.
    The T&C's would almost certainly limit liability to cost of replacement. Not fitting.

    Does the original fitter still have the off cuts of the tube?

    Forget about emailing Yachtbits. You can't wait. Phone them up and then follow up the contents of the phone call with an email.
    Last edited by Talulah; 02-05-12 at 11:31.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by EugeneR View Post
    I e-mailed the supplier (yachtbits.co.uk) but not had a response in the short time so far.

    Also, no response from the manufacturer yet. They claim their tubes are manufactured for leading manufacturers of bow thruster units nationally and internationally using resins with Lloyds type approval.

    Clearly, this one seems to have an issue but what will they do about it?

    To clarify, if a product fails, is the manufacturer liable or would it be the entity that sold it to me? Surely, it would be in their interest to rectify this problem correctly - otherwise their insurance won't cover them?
    IMHO 100% the entity who supplied should rectify the situation!

    You buy a new Sony tv from "agb elelectrics" and it goes wrong? I rest my case!

  3. #13
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    The manufacturer, Halyard, has come back saying "this type of delamination is commonly seen due to forcing the drill through rather than letting the drill do the work. If too much pressure is applied it will pop through rather than making a clean hole."

    In other words, blame the engineer. Clearly, this does not address the reported "fluffiness" inside or the unwinding also reported by the GRP guy.

    Also, they say that "the factory have got a copy of the installation instructions for the bow-thruster and based on this they are preparing some guidelines for XXX marine to carry out a repair."

    They took the 2 pieces of leftover tube for inspection to ensure there is no quality issue.

    What should I expect Yachtbits to do and on what basis? I tried calling but no answer. The legal entity for them is K M Electronics and neither they, nor their supplier, seems to limit liability in their terms.

    Is it worth getting a surveyor to confirm whether the tube has manufacturing issues? Also, without removing the tube and/or drilling more holes, how can one validate the "fluffiness" inside?.

  4. #14
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    Well having done lots of grp work by the way of repairs to and building from bare hulled grp boats I kind of agree with the explanation provided....

    Yes you can exert too much pressure when drilling and yes the resultant hole with bits coming out can and do end up looking fluffy....

    With a piece of grp that had had matting laid in a random way pulling on these fluffy bits will have no effect other than to pull a few strands of glass out! I suspect though and I stress suspect only....that if spirally wound then pulling at these fluffy bits will be like unravelling a ball of wool....I may be wrong here but I'm thinking they may be correct!

    PS...Pop a few pic's up if you have them?
    Last edited by RobWales; 02-05-12 at 14:32. Reason: PS

  5. #15
    Talulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EugeneR View Post
    The manufacturer, Halyard, has come back saying "this type of delamination is commonly seen due to forcing the drill through rather than letting the drill do the work. If too much pressure is applied it will pop through rather than making a clean hole."

    In other words, blame the engineer. Clearly, this does not address the reported "fluffiness" inside or the unwinding also reported by the GRP guy.

    They took the 2 pieces of leftover tube for inspection to ensure there is no quality issue.
    I have had personal dealings with Halyard and I must say they are good people to work with. I know their tube winding machine and I would be very surprised if there were any defects in the manufacture of the tube. I would equally expect them to investigate the tube and be honest about any defects found. It would be nice however if one of the off cuts had been kept by yourself for independent verification.
    I would not be surprised if the hole had been 'forced' through.
    Typically when I make this kind of hole I am using a new hole cutter everytime. (Usually because I can't find the old one.) However, the cutter used by a tradesman could have been used on numerous occasions and could well be blunt. I'm not saying it is but that is where my suspicion would lie.

  6. #16
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    Here is the picture that I received from Halyard.



    If they are correct then I can imagine the engineer would have experienced some "springy" feedback while drilling. That said, the GRP guys' feedback about it not sounding right when cutting, etc still needs to be explained.

    If Halyard's view is correct, should I expect the engineer who drilled the hole, to make good the damage?

    Given the picture, which does seem different from what I understood under "unwinding", can this be safely corrected? Most of the previous comments still seem to apply...

    Should I just write the 1000-ish cheque and get a new one fitted?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobWales View Post
    Well having done lots of grp work by the way of repairs to and building from bare hulled grp boats I kind of agree with the explanation provided....

    Yes you can exert too much pressure when drilling and yes the resultant hole with bits coming out can and do end up looking fluffy....

    With a piece of grp that had had matting laid in a random way pulling on these fluffy bits will have no effect other than to pull a few strands of glass out! I suspect though and I stress suspect only....that if spirally wound then pulling at these fluffy bits will be like unravelling a ball of wool....I may be wrong here but I'm thinking they may be correct!

    PS...Pop a few pic's up if you have them?
    On now seeing the photo I stand by the above!

    If it were mine I would use resin to stick those strands back in place, plenty of matting on the O/D of the tube once installed in the hull and a couple of coats of flow coat inside and out.

    But thats what I would do...not advising you what to do.
    Last edited by RobWales; 02-05-12 at 15:15. Reason: typo

  8. #18
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    If it were me I would just be repairing that tube.
    The main thing is you want the gasket supplied with the thruster to create a water tight seal when it is trapped between the gearbox and tube.
    Secondly, you don't want water to wick it's way through the fibreglass.
    I would cut off the unwound length of fibre. Paint the exposed fibreglass with some epoxy resin and then fill with some epoxy resin mixed with talc or alternatively just use some gelcoat filler. I wouldn't be adversely worried.

  9. #19
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    Hello Chaps

    this is actually the first I've heard of this problem, I will however check our mail server tomorrow to trace the email sent on Wednesday. It should have come to my inbox, but I have no recollection of seeing it. I will advise back once I have checked this out.

    Halyard, are probably the market leaders and we supply them because of this reputation. We stand by their product and would be shocked to find a quality issue with one of their tubes. It does look like a solution has already been reached, but we would have been pro-active in getting answers from Halyard had we needed to.

    However, one thing that has been noticed. Very rapidly, our liability was being discussed before the cause of the problem had even been established. I do feel this was a slightly unfair reaction in the time this tread has run, especially as the installer who may well have caused this problem, had not been named. Presumably he had inspected the tube before installation?

    As of today, our terms and conditions have been revised to specifically limit our liability to the value of the goods and/or services supplied by us from now on. This does not mean that we will not do everything we can to resolve problems when they occur.

    Kevin Smith
    Managing Director
    http://www.yachtbits.com
    sales@yachtbits.co.uk
    marine electrics & electronics

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by yachtbits View Post
    Hello Chaps

    this is actually the first I've heard of this problem, I will however check our mail server tomorrow to trace the email sent on Wednesday. It should have come to my inbox, but I have no recollection of seeing it. I will advise back once I have checked this out.

    Halyard, are probably the market leaders and we supply them because of this reputation. We stand by their product and would be shocked to find a quality issue with one of their tubes. It does look like a solution has already been reached, but we would have been pro-active in getting answers from Halyard had we needed to.

    However, one thing that has been noticed. Very rapidly, our liability was being discussed before the cause of the problem had even been established. I do feel this was a slightly unfair reaction in the time this tread has run, especially as the installer who may well have caused this problem, had not been named. Presumably he had inspected the tube before installation?

    As of today, our terms and conditions have been revised to specifically limit our liability to the value of the goods and/or services supplied by us from now on. This does not mean that we will not do everything we can to resolve problems when they occur.

    Kevin Smith
    Managing Director
    Its a forum! we are here to help eachother? read the thread and ask yourself.......has the OP had satisfaction?
    NO...........hence his post here!
    Maybe you should converse with him and not on here?

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