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  1. #1
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    Question Lying Ahull - Bare Pole?

    Ok so I'm readying Adlard's book on heavy weather sailing and a common tactic on his behalf is Lying ahull on bare poles. Can any explain to me exactly this tactic. I'm assuming in his case the windage on the boat is enough for it to create steerage but where do you tie the tiller down? All the way to lee? Surely not?

  2. #2
    prv is offline Registered User
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    Absent any other mention, I'd assume the tiller was lashed amidships. The problem with hard over to one side is that if you're thrown back on it, it's more likely to break. I don't think he was planning to steer in any particular direction, just let the boat drift as it would, with the crew safe below.

    Bear in mind that all the boats in his book (assuming you have one of the older editions like my 1980 one) were traditionally-shaped with long keels. With the possible exception of the very last ones, but they'd still have been conservative by today's standards with skegs and long fins. So his tactics may not be suitable for a modern high-volume boat with a shallow bilge and narrow fin. A modern-style rolled genoa won't help either. Old boats lying to the wind tend to do so with the wind on the shoulder, a little way ahead of the beam. But with hardly anything below the water at the bow, and a lot of windage in the rolled sail above it, modern boats tend to have the bow blow off and end up beam to wind or even further round.

    Pete
    Last edited by prv; 15-04-13 at 15:52.

  3. #3
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    Good points. I kind of got the impression that the boat was stabilised in some way and didn't roll about causing sea sickness which is why i thoughts the steerage might have been in one direction or the other.

  4. #4
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    I've done it twice in a Bavaria, the windage of the stackpack managing to keep the bow kind of towards the wind so not beam on, wheel adjusted so she would head up with forward motion. We drifted at 2.5 knts about 40 deg off downwind. In the weather you consider this it's going to be quite rough and the boat did do some big rolls as waves broke over her, but it was possible to rest, eat and stay safe. The cooker was not an option most of the time and the crew were scared (so was I the first time, but don't tell them)

    Different boats behave differently and in this sort of weather you often try different approaches and see what suits the boat best whilst hanging on for dear life and getting very wet! it will depend on sea state as well as to what's best. You use the tactic that works best for you out of... running with it, heave to, trail stuff to slow the boat, deploy sea anchors to either hold stern or bow into the waves.
    Last edited by Neil_Y; 15-04-13 at 16:51.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by northcave View Post
    Ok so I'm readying Adlard's book on heavy weather sailing and a common tactic on his behalf is Lying ahull on bare poles. Can any explain to me exactly this tactic. I'm assuming in his case the windage on the boat is enough for it to create steerage but where do you tie the tiller down? All the way to lee? Surely not?
    Ideally, bow should be kept towards any waves as the strongest part of the boat, rather than let the bows pay off, with all the seas breaking into the cockpit.

  6. #6
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    Once seas really start breaking heavily lying ahull in a modern beamy fin keeler it gets hairy fast - and you are at risk of being rolled. Read an up to date copy, not an old edition - there is much more experience out there now as more boats are around particularly ocean racing, also the old books refer mainly to older hull types.

  7. #7
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    The US Coastguard researched storm tactics for yachts following the fastnet disaster.
    The report is here
    http://www.sv-zanshin.com/manuals/jo...uardreport.pdf
    As PRV says modern boat tactics should be completely different from Adlards.
    I've used a drogue deployed from the stern several times now and it feels really safe. Its like the old sailing boat tactic of trailing warps.

  8. #8
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    All I've ever experienced is "fore-reaching" in 65kn in a medium-spec Froggy AWB. We popped on the storm-jib and backed it (stormjibs are only any good for passing safety inspections- take my word for it: they are as much use as sliding-doors on a submarine when it comes to maneuvering).
    I stuck the helm over and sort of tried to sail against the backed jiblet.
    We eventually made the heady speed of 1.6kn at an angle of 135 to the wind (approx), and had bone-breakingingly sore beatings delivered to the fore-quarter of the boat, but it felt a whole lot safer than bare poles with no way on.
    For data-transfer rate, nothing beats throwing a computer!

  9. #9
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    Very boat-specific. Some boats will head up to a similar attitude as being hove-to, others will try to lie beam on and you don't want to do that. With sea room available you can run off downwind under bare poles with most boats, probably a better option.

  10. #10
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    I can "hove to" with the genoa rolled in almost fully and the helm put over to back it ( The boat maintains about 60 deg to the wind) but when the wind gets up even more and the waves start cresting its scary.
    So now just put the drogue out with all the sails stowed (Genoa rolled up really tight and the main tied tight to the boom ). Rudder locked off amidships. Get down below and ride it out making less than 1 knt.

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