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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Posts
    733

    Default Re: Red diesel - hang on this is no "concession"

    Nah! this is a Yellow diesel [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]




    <hr width=100% size=1>Someday my ship will come in, and with my luck I'll be at the airport!.
    Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    3,790

    Default Re: Red diesel - hang on this is no \"concession\"

    Agree absolutely

    We need to get out of this mind set where not being taxed is a concession. The point is that the extraordinary level of tax on fuel is an imposition which any sensible government would be trying to reduce.

    We have nothing to feel guilty about - no-one is doing us a favour with red diesel. What we need to avoid is being done a disfavour.

    PS

    I used nearly £6 worth of diesel last year - don't know how I will manage.

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  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Boat - Clyde, Home - Overlooking the Tamar
    Posts
    4,084

    Default Re: Red diesel - hang on this is no \"concession\"

    £6 worth! - blimey - that wouldn't get me from my marina berth to the entrance to Portsmouth harbour - and I'm at Royal Clarence marina, Gosport!

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  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Warwickshire
    Posts
    253

    Default Re: Red diesel - hang on this is no \"concession\"

    Im pretty sure my father mentioned the use of rebated petrol during and just after ww2 and it was green,most tractors then were petrol/Tvo (tractor vaporising oil similar to kerosene) diesel started to reign supreme in the late 40s early 50s

    <hr width=100% size=1>Mike....... V8s are sweet music
    Mike.......Yank V8s are sweet music

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Warwick. Boat in Swansea
    Posts
    1,362

    Default Re: Red diesel - hang on this is no \"concession\"

    Very well put.
    I my print that off and send it my MP.

    Steve.

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  6. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Warwickshire
    Posts
    253

    Default Re: Red diesel - hang on this is no \"concession\"

    Some while ago there was a program on TV about the laundering of red diesel into white,I couldnt believe it ! they were actually showing exactly how to do it. They were filtering it through fullers earth, better known to most of us as radiator leak stopper,radweld etc., but used in great quantities in the process of clarifying cooking oil. Marvellous I thought but at the end of the programme it transpired that you need a licence to buy fullers earth in any quantity.

    <hr width=100% size=1>Mike....... V8s are sweet music
    Mike.......Yank V8s are sweet music

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Boat - Clyde, Home - Overlooking the Tamar
    Posts
    4,084

    Default Without the formatting errors

    Steve,

    I don't know if I am flattering myself or not - but if it is your intention to give my original note to your MP then please see it reproduced below - but without the formatting errors!

    Rob


    All this talk of “ending the concession” is a bit odd to me, because I understood that whether red or white diesel was used for vehicles depended on whether it was being used as “road fuel” or not. Thus, Farmers, who put red diesel in their tractors, are entitled to do so because a tractor is not primarily a road vehicle. Likewise forklift trucks in yard premises where not taken on the road, and finally boats because they are clearly not using red diesel as road fuel.

    I remember this because there was an issue a few years ago where farmers were hauling sugar beet to the factory with the new generation of “fast” tractors (these tractors do 40mph) and Customs were questioning their right to use red diesel because the vehicles were primarily being used as road vehicles. The final argument came down (I think) to whether these tractors had standard field tyres or whether they had fitted “road tyres”.

    So, to remove the so called “concession for boats” as far as I can see the government have to change the law such that it is not determined by vehicle use but by some other method. If they don’t then surely farmers (and fork lift trucks and trawlers and council grass cutting machinery and lorries on container ports etc………………) will also all have to use white diesel instead of red.

    If the government say well “leisure boats are to use white diesel” then I can see my boat having a LAN fitted on it pretty sharpish with a special lazerette for the server and fax! “No Sir, not a leisure boat but a floating office”

    As for VAT, well the rule for boat diesel is nonsense. Because of something strange in the VAT Act we only pay 5% (on small quantities) of red diesel whereas we should pay the full 17.5% rate (farmers do!). So Gordon could go for that and I wouldn’t have such an objection. (The effect would be an increase from 35ppl to 39ppl which is 11%, fair do’s).

    So, my message for Gordon is:

    1) Leave red diesel law as it is (unless you are also taking on everybody else as well, don’t just stick the knife in to boaters)

    2) You can have 17.5% VAT on boat diesel, that gives you some cash and it’s fair enough

    Someone from the RYA must read this website I presume?......................

    rob


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  8. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Boat - Clyde, Home - Overlooking the Tamar
    Posts
    4,084

    Default Re: Without the formatting errors

    Oh no! The errors are still there - I can't explain that. If anyone wants a "clean" version then PM me and I'll send you the word file.

    rob

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  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Hamble/Southampton/$olent
    Posts
    83

    Default Re: Without the formatting errors

    Hello Rob
    Excellent letter
    Hopefully most of us forumites will agree with the points you make. It would be nice if we could all 'sing from the same hymn sheet'
    Last month i had the pleasure of having my picture taken by "Gordon's Automatic Tax Suplementing Operation...(or GATSO as most of us know it) for 'speeding' past a camera at 48mph (in a 40mph limit) at 0058hrs in the morning with no other person around for miles, in the middle of a forest with the nearest house some quarter of a mile away........usual result, 3points and 60gbp fine.
    The point is (apart from an oportunity to whinge!!) is that in the last 3-4 years since the fuel protests of 2000, i have lost count of haw many new methods this government has created to tax the motorists dry (presumably to ofset the fact that the fuel prices have remained relatively steady since 2000 ??) and now, not content with the revenue from motorists, the government is looking to tax boaters also!!.....Where will all the extra revenue go?...New public low cost marina's to encourage people into boat ownership thus boosting the industry as a whole?, new HM Coastguard helicopters and grants to the RNLI to help save even more lives per year?...yeah chance would be a fine thing!
    There is only one thing worse than paying a tax and that is paying an UNFAIR tax.
    Hopefully we will see the same kind of solidarity here as that experienced during those fuel protests of 2000.
    Simon


    <hr width=100% size=1>I'v got 2 ears.2 eyes and 1 mouth....if only i could use them in that proportion!
    I'v got 2 ears.2 eyes and 1 mouth....if only i could use them in that proportion!

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,172

    Default Re: Red diesel - hang on this is no \"concession\"

    I like most motorboaters are very concerned about this issue. Concerned enough to consider if I am going to be able to justify the huge increase in cost of running a motorboat. I thought that the termination of the "concession" in red diesel was as a result of our friendly european government and little to do with what our government says. If I am correct then Gordon won't have any say in the matter other than to lobby on our behalf. How come when Europe wants to harmonise some crappy tax system - our government agrees and we get shafted, but when Europe has a lower tax on something that will make our life better, our government ignores it? Sorry I will get off my soapbox!


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