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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    161

    Default Re: Tax Yes - But Which Tax ?

    Sorry, I've just noticed my personal details are incorrect (which I shall now change), I am from Northern Ireland so Mr Brown's antics are just a matter of time before they reach here. This point raises two cautionary notes. 1) Taxes (in what ever form) creep, that is if they are not here already they are going to come, and if they are here they are 'fiddled' with to exploit their full potential. E.g. within the last two weeks a local gas supplier Phoenix Gas has raised the price of gas to the consumer by 20% - a charge passed on, reportedly, from their English supplier Centrica. There is evidently no protection in this kind of action for the consumer - I do not want this situation to arise for the boater. If a tax has to come, and it will, then various checks and balances have to be negotiated to advance the interests of the user of diesel for leisure purposes. Tax will come due to pressures of revenue acquisition, environmental issues, depletion of a non-renewable resource, discrimination/preferential treatment of a particular interest group etc. 2) If a government, any government, can introduce a tax carte blanche then they will milk it for all they can. If I am right (and this is still a big if) and a tax will be introduced in the short term then it is incumbent on those affected by such a tax to minimise the negative impact such a tax will have on their interests. To this end, I would suggest lobbying, with other interest groups, for a unique tax band for nonrenewable energy resources for leisure/fuel poverty users. I am not being defeatist or disloyal rather this could be a part of a prudent, long term strategy in supporting the interests of the boater.

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  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Crouch
    Posts
    706

    Default Re: Red Diesel should be taxed!

    I will continue to use Diesel on the grounds that it is safer not just because it is cheaper due to its tax status. Diesel has become the prefered fuel for boats due to its tax concession safety is to some is not the issue and you will see more boats going back to petrol or even gas. If you have a fire in a car then if able you can get out and walk away. This is not an option in a boat, so the tax status should stay on diesel to encourage this to remain the fuel of choice and to save lives that might otherwise be lost.

    I think one of the reasons for ending red diesel is its illegal use by some on the roads, this is estimated to be a considerable loss in tax. More and more the many are going to suffer for the illegal actions of the few, don't hit the law abiding just to stop those that are intent in breaking it.

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  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    161

    Default Re: Red Diesel should be taxed!

    I think the safety element is one of the better arguments for having a preferential tax status for diesel on boats but the pressures for implementing a change in tax come from other cultures, economies, pressure groups and political ideologues. In terms of economies it is said if America sneezes Britain catches a cold and for a good insight on fuel taxation, the reasons for it and the effect it has the following site is most illuminating:

    http://api-ec.api.org/aboutapi/index...10000000000000

    I think there is a good chance to retain the tax status on diesel for leisure use in the short term (i.e. the 2006 scenario) but I think we should be looking at the longer view in terms of developing a strategy in regard to price stability and affordability.

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  4. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,665

    Default Re: Red Diesel should be taxed!

    The UK has a thriving marine industry including manufacturers, service companies and users. Any industry needs time to adapt to changing circumstances without risking falling revenues and loss of jobs, neither of which benefits the governement economically or socially. I think our efforts should be aimed at delaying and reducing the impact of tax rises, as we are more likely to succeed.

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  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    4,259

    Default Re: Red Diesel should be taxed!

    We are beginning to miss the point on the issue of Red Diesel:-

    1. The EC directive on fuel duties was introduced to ensure a level playing field across member countries for road fuel duties so that there should be no violent distortions in price as one went from country to another. It also wanted to distinguish between commercial transport and private vehicle use. Somewhere down the line private boating use was inserted as a target group of users.

    2. In the UK road fuels are targeted with a high excise duty ostensibly to pay for the cost of roads (in truth really being a bit like National Insurance "contributions" - but really another general tax).

    3. Because of the high rate of road fuel duty the UK has been given a dispensation (derogation) for users of Gas Oil for non road use until 31/12/2006, being a temporary concession it is problematic whether this could be renewed for a further term, we have already been given time to get our house in order, they would say.

    4. What was supposed to be a level playing field in terms of price would be quite the opposite for us in the U.K. beccause our duty is about twice the amount that it is on the continent.

    5. We benefit from a double reduction of tax in that the duty on MGO is about 5p/l AND the VAT is only 5% - because the fuel is effectively earmarked for heating purposes, and other users - agricultural, generators and boats are allowed for administrative reasons. In effect the Government has said high rates of duty is for road users, everybody else pays a lower rate.

    Brussels has said "stuff that"; we must all conform to one set of rules; the problem is that the rules have been published in a document specifically dealing with Road Transport and anything else has been ignored.

    6. As a minority user we are unlikely to get anywhere unless we make a lot of noise at the highest level.

    7. On a political point I note that Mr. Blair has said that Taxation is a veto that he won't give up, yet I can't see him sticking to that for so few unless he is bullied into doing so.

    8. I wondered why C&E have begun to collect names and "inside leg measurements" when we buy MGO for our boats, probably not to stop us filling our cars with it but more likely so that they know who is running boats and where (and how much fuel they buy)?

    9. If some extra tax is inevitable, then I would not make a fuss if the total extra tax (duty + VAT) was of the order of say, 20p/l but a giant hike would not be acceptable, and I hope not to you either.

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  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    161

    Default Re: Red Diesel should be taxed!

    The cost of fuel in GB is too high and this is down to taxes. Fuel tax is an easy option to increase revenue because, by and large, it affects the individual. The individual, in turn, has no real political influence and has to accept the tax rises.

    I live in Northern Ireland and I use less than a tank full of fuel per week. I can drive 40 miles to the South of Ireland, fill up on fuel at about two thirds the cost, and this would do me for the following week. Northern Ireland is a struggling economy, the South isn't and a large part of this is due to the lower taxes on fuel.

    One haulier in GB was speaking of the rise to 80p+ per litre for fuel would cost him around £100 000 per annum in added costs. The haulier has no intention of going out of business and to avoid this he has to absorb some of the costs and pass on the others - ergo inflation. The Bank of England's response to this will be to increase interests rates on the cost of borrowing. This is logic worthy of Swift. The government causes the problem and the punter pays for it twice, first through higher taxation and then through the higher cost of credit!

    I think taxes are bad but not as bad as unaccountability in taxation. I also think there should have a preferential tax band to stimulate commerce and industry and and I think we should argue our corner on proposed long-term rates of red diesel taxation on this point...


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