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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    French Canals 2007 on, Hull most of winter. previously the Humber , western Greece, western Italy and the south of France.
    Posts
    1,118

    Default Re: Tax free bad v Taxed good?

    I appreciate Steve and others feelings behind the comments on my proposal for increasing the tax on road fuel. I also understand the ramifications of such a policy.

    But within twenty years we are likely to be paying about ten times the current price anyway.

    I believe the people who share the tax worries are not taking into account the global position on the curve showing the exploitation of oil over time. We are at the top, halfway, since the discovery of oil to the complete exhaustion. This is not in itself a problem for us now. The first serious facet is the costs of getting the remaining stocks will get increasingly exorbitant. The other problem is that a few small countries are net exporters. The UK, Europe, the US and China etc. all import vast quantities.

    The world population is expected to stabilise at about 10 billion. Less than double the current numbers. The stabilisation is mainly due to improved living standards in developing countries. To anyone who has visited China a couple of times over the past twenty years will know a clear example of this phenomenon. One does not have to be a rocket scientist to put two and two together. The line on the graph of demand rushes on up while those with reserves seek to exploit the situation.

    My suggestion was to raise [over years] the road fuel tax to double its present amount and to spend all the income on developing our public transport. Without going into details, unless invited to, I believe something needs doing if we care about those who follow.

    Incidentally, we in The North, beside a two litre petrol car, have an excellent, clean, reliable, safe, comfortable train service to London. 200 miles in less than 3 hours for less than £14 APEX. I shall be on it this weekend.

    Now give me the arguments for keeping tax free fuel for pleasure use.

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  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    15,573

    Default Re: Tax free bad v Taxed good?

    He's based in Greece so why should he care!

    I just wish those who are not affected keep their snouts out.

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  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    French Canals 2007 on, Hull most of winter. previously the Humber , western Greece, western Italy and the south of France.
    Posts
    1,118

    Default Re: Tax free bad v Taxed good?

    Dear Mr Silver.

    Sure my boat is in Greece today but I plan to bring her home again soon. I have spent twenty years buying red diesel and hope for another twenty years tax free when I get back.

    I just think that if you want a chance of winning the arguement against people who would like the extra money, you need to practice on some easy target like me. Just to say you cannot afford it or you don't want to pay, is not going to get you anywhere.

    Nobody has pointed me at posting that contains a reasoned arguement.



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  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    ked into poverty by children
    Posts
    8,517

    Default Re: Tax free bad v Taxed good?

    &gt;&gt;&gt;Nobody has pointed me at posting that contains a reasoned arguement.&lt;&lt;&lt;

    Nobody has posted a reasoned argument that justifies an increase either. The politics of jealousy (of which "green" is usually a subset) do not, and never have or will, constitute reasoned argument.


    <hr width=100% size=1>Two beers please, my friend is paying.
    Two beers please, my friend is paying.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    French Canals 2007 on, Hull most of winter. previously the Humber , western Greece, western Italy and the south of France.
    Posts
    1,118

    Default Re: Tax free bad v Taxed good?

    I cannot properly argue for the tax as I don't want it either but my guess for those who do is=

    It is part of EU harmonisation. If this, it is surely unavoidable.

    It will raise some money from a group, pleasure boatowners, whos' cries of objection are unlikely to be sympathetically received by others who pay tax on the persuit of their hobby.

    They pay 60 p a litre tax on petrol, without objection despite using large quanities of it in big out boards and personal water craft.

    Large quantitites are used to push expensive boats at high speed so there there must be a degree of acceptance of high consumption/cost anyway.

    People who can afford the very large boats will not notice the cost over the normal large boat overheads, eg paid crew.

    It is hard to avoid paying the tax in the case of 90% of the owners, so, easy to collect.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Has anyone got the offical reason for the imposition of the tax? Maybe this should be the starting point of a debate.

    If nobody wants a reasoned debate I suggest everyone stops wasting time on a doomed campaign. The only gainer from a doomed campaign will be the magazine.

    If anyone wants to discuss whether my pleasure boating is a 'green' activity I suggest they start another thread. [ You wont find me suggesting I am Green. I am very guilty of taking more than my share of the planet's resources, as charged.]

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  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    ked into poverty by children
    Posts
    8,517

    Default Re: Tax free bad v Taxed good?

    &gt;&gt;&gt;
    It is part of EU harmonisation. If this, it is surely unavoidable.
    &gt;&gt;&gt;
    Withdraw... Harmonisation has not been applied on other fuel taxes, or alcohol, or tobacco, so why on red diesel?
    &gt;&gt;&gt;
    It will raise some money from a group, pleasure boatowners, whos' cries of objection are unlikely to be sympathetically received by others who pay tax on the persuit of their hobby.
    &gt;&gt;&gt;
    There are a lot of very unhappy narrowboat owners, many of who also live close to the margins of affordability and are not perceived as wealthy gin palace owners. They mau even be seen by Gordon as "more our type". IIRC inland waterways groups are also campaigning.
    &gt;&gt;&gt;
    They pay 60 p a litre tax on petrol, without objection despite using large quanities of it in big out boards and personal water craft.
    &gt;&gt;&gt;
    Big outboards, fair comment, just how many are there compared to equivalent power diesel plant, I wonder? PWC, do these actually use much fuel? A couple of hours over a long weekend, until the ladies are suitably impressed? As for without objection, well, I doubt that one! Big outboard = big fuel bill = wealthy is also an easy relationship to assume.
    &gt;&gt;&gt;
    I suspect that the official reason will be "because the EU say so and we are just applying EU rules".

    <hr width=100% size=1>Two beers please, my friend is paying.
    Two beers please, my friend is paying.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Berks
    Posts
    2,577

    Default Re: Tax free bad v Taxed good?

    Where does he get 60p/ltr from??

    <hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/colspics> Cols Picture Album</A>


  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Stratford upon Avon & S.Devon
    Posts
    5,166

    Default Re: Tax free bad v Taxed good?

    60p per litre IN TAX. Come on, wake up [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

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