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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
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    Brecon, Wales
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    7,165

    Default Re: Dissapointing Article In MBY

    I really think the fuel sellers have not thought about it much - in fact most people will be in denial until it happens.

    Not many will be able to offer 2 fuel types and even offering one will either lose the pleasure or the commercial side - hence I do see real practical difficulties.

    Add to that the extra income for fuel will not be so much in profit but in paying Mr. Brown and allow for the reduced sales - you are looking at stopping one part of your sales totally and greatly reducing sales if you choose to supply pleasure boats ..... it would frankly be uneconomic for many pumps to exist!

    The boat market will no longer be fed with folks entering motor boating and buying in at the bottom and that will work its way up to new boat sales. This is why firms like Fairline who operate on slim margins would still be hit by the loss of even 5% of sales let alone 10%.







    <hr width=100% size=1>Paul
    Paul
    St Francis 50 Cat
    My Multihull Forum

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Cornwall
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    8,829

    Default Re: Dissapointing Article In MBY

    The problem I see if say they stay with red, sales are down ( no pleasure ) you have no cost penalty, lower turnover, lower stock value and lower profit value, slight increase in profit margin to cover maintance and your break-even.
    If you drop red and stock green ( or whatever ) your stock level just went up 300/400%, your sales have come down, ( no red and you must allow reduced usageof green ), but running costs have stayed constant. So you need to cover the tax, you need to increase price to maintain the profit margin on purchases, you need to increase cost to cover maintanance costs.
    So green means a lot more costs, and a lot more moaning from the pleasure trade, so unless you have a large captive market, ie a large marina, it's better to stay red or not sell diesel. If you have a captive market you can charge what you like, or sell to your customer's at a reasonable price, and the flease visitors.
    Locally, within 2 mile of us, during the lost 10/12 years we have had about 8/10 garages stop selling petrol, leaving only 4, I see no reason why the marine sector should be different.
    Can you see a 60 foot motor boat owner carrying fuel in cans from the local garage??

    Still worry that it will end up not cost, but availabillity.

    Brian

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  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Tesla in Space
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    63,035

    Default Re: Dissapointing Article In MBY

    Stock level up? how?

    <hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Boat - Clyde, Home - Overlooking the Tamar
    Posts
    4,064

    Default Re: Dissapointing Article In MBY

    Not stock volume up, but stock value, which in the operators eyes amounts to the same thing. So, say the tank holds 30k litres - value now is £6k, value with white diesel is say £24k. Additional working capital required therefore £18k and assuming a cost of capital of 12% that's additional financing cost of £2,160. Assuming margin on fuel is 13ppl there is a requirement to sell a further 16k litres just to cover the stock carrying cost.

    rob

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  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Brecon, Wales
    Posts
    7,165

    Default Re: Dissapointing Article In MBY

    "Still worry that it will end up not cost, but availabillity."

    It will end up both - cost will be 3 to 4 times and availability will be difficult.

    I repeat that the UK cruising boat market will be devastated. The chancellor will not collect more tax but less. The administration of the system will be a nightmare. Red will still legally be showing up in tanks for years.

    My fear is that the government will not understand the real issues here and so act in a way that will destroy the power boat industry without gaining any of its objectives.

    We live in a world of what looks right at surface value is more important than what really is right.

    I like the way some talk about UK boat makers not being affected too much because most sales are export as if a 10% drop in Fairline/Princess/Sealine sales would not hit them hard when in practice some of them such as Fairline make a minimal return on their investment. A 10% drop in anyones sales would hit hard.





    <hr width=100% size=1>Paul
    Paul
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    My Multihull Forum

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Cornwall
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    8,829

    Default Re: Dissapointing Article In MBY

    Which results in, stay red and minimise cost and problems, or not bother selling any colour diesel.

    Brian

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  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Brecon, Wales
    Posts
    7,165

    Default Re: Dissapointing Article In MBY

    Yes - probably right but of course they are then still on reduced sales with only commercial boats fuel to sell. Its a no win situation.

    <hr width=100% size=1>Paul
    Paul
    St Francis 50 Cat
    My Multihull Forum

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    8,829

    Default Re: Dissapointing Article In MBY

    Thats what I been saying for months now, every one see's fuel going up to pump prices, full stop. But the price is only a base price, marine outlets can sell at any price they think fit, look at petrol prices. I think £1.20/1.50 a litre not being unresonable, allowing for increased operating cost in the marine area, i.e. not self service, floating distribution outlets, more corrosive enviroment, much lower sales levels, etc, etc. So £6 a gallon is not a unreasonable price to expect.
    As a raggie it's not much of a problem, very rarely us a tank a year, so a fuel can is ok.
    But most of our customers are OE boat builders, so I am directly envolved from that side, if there is a significant drop in UK production, we see a direct drop in our sales. So we are now working on new web site and over the next 12 months, looking to increase retail sales as a back-up.


    Brian

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  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Brecon, Wales
    Posts
    7,165

    Default Re: Dissapointing Article In MBY

    I have also been saying the same and I agree - prices would rise well above raod fuel price if the duty was increased to road fuel prices.

    I am pleased that you also see that it would effect your business, some around here reckon it will have no effect!!



    <hr width=100% size=1>Paul
    Paul
    St Francis 50 Cat
    My Multihull Forum

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    sussex
    Posts
    1,568

    Default Re: Dissapointing Article In MBY

    Given that at the moment boats (all boats over say 30 foot) are a luxury second holiday home, and at present they do not attract any form of "poll tax"unless lived on full time. With the increased expected inactivity due to the red diesel hike in price. How long before they become a target for local councils starved of the governments funds allocations, So which party is going to stick its neck out? there is not enough difference to choose from at the present so the first one to say that it will not comply with the EEC ruling (in may things not just red diesel) gets my vote, bring back the monster raving looney party!! David Sutch was it?
    Rob

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