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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Greenwich
    Posts
    7,595

    Default Re: Single hand a Jeanneau 409/419?

    Agree with most of the above that it's the parking not the sailing which is most awkward when alone. In-mast or slab is a compromise between sailing performance and convenience, but if you are not continuously tuning to the last quarter knot I doubt you would notice anything but the convenience.

    Bowthruster - yes probably but with my Jeanneau 42.2 I've never needed it and have the common experience of being dinked or nearly dinked any number of times by bowthruster boats and when I hear the whine I'm on deck like a shot to help fend off. Basically because I think it's a fabulous occasional tool by those who already know how boats handle in tides, turning, side winds etc. but a dangerous tool when used (often charterers or new owners) by those who are trying to make the boat act like a train on tracks rather than a skater on ice.

    But I would suggest it's all about preparation - ropes and fenders both sides and ready for any combination of cleat type and finger length - and a good like at wind and tide so a plan for going in and which rope to tie on first. I have to admit that the Med method of going in stern first even on finger berths is infinitely easier than going in bow first as you have a wide flat fendered surface bumping the end of the quay, right beside you with stern ropes ready for you to step out (no jumping needed)and tie on, walk around the finger with the middle line. Far easier for aborting the approach at the wrong moment and works even better if it's a tight berth.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Colchester, Essex
    Posts
    4,750

    Default Re: Single hand a Jeanneau 409/419?

    Good point... one of the curses in my view of single handing is the style move to dual wheels BUT, only a single engine control. A mate has a 379, which I have been helping him with to get set for short handed sailing, and the engine control being on the far starboard side is ridiculous! Surely twin wheels requires an engine control on each pedestal, not on the opposite side of the cockpit
    Larry Botheras

    Colvic Victor 35 "Gladys"

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Southminster, essex
    Posts
    9,436

    Default Re: Single hand a Jeanneau 409/419?

    Quote Originally Posted by pvb View Post
    Very few in-mast sails have battens.

    Most I have seen have had battens. Those without have lost so much sail area that the system is even worse
    The sail is basically just a flat bit of cloth.
    Later designs do try to add some shape within the batten design
    It is all down to the fact that my wife does not understand me !!

  4. #34
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    UK East Coast
    Posts
    36,626

    Default Re: Single hand a Jeanneau 409/419?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream believer View Post
    Most I have seen have had battens.
    Then I'd suggest your experience isn't typical.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    32,180

    Default Re: Single hand a Jeanneau 409/419?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream believer View Post
    Most I have seen have had battens. Those without have lost so much sail area that the system is even worse
    The sail is basically just a flat bit of cloth.
    Later designs do try to add some shape within the batten design
    You obviously have not looked at a lot. Very few in mast have battens. They are a mixed blessing. Was discussing just this with one of the top sailmakers only last week and he is reluctant to use them, particularly in the latest smaller section masts where space is limited.

    A boat designed for in mast from the start will have enough sail area to perform well - certainly my boat does. although the sail area is about 5% smaller than the battened equivalent any loss is more than made up by the ability to adjust sail area quickly to suit conditions rather than being stuck with only 3 choices of sail area, where the first reduction loses 25-39% of mainsail area.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Gone cruising
    Posts
    2,395

    Default Re: Single hand a Jeanneau 409/419?

    Just to once again clear up the still widespread myths about in-mast furling:

    * The modern in-mast furling stuff (Selden Furlin or Z-Spar) works very well.
    * Sails have either no, or full length vertical battens, which do not jam (but you can't drop the sail in a hurry) and you typically have a straight leech with leech line, or can have a small roach with vertical battens if you're concerned about lost sail area (don't be).
    * Like any other system, you need to RTFM and learn how to use it properly (YM had a good article on this a while ago). Boom angle in both dimensions is most important. Furling mains also prefer to be slightly powered up rather than flapping around during furling, which also makes your sail last longer.

    I strongly suggest you sail on boats with both and then think about which you'd rather use single-handed. I'd be very surprised if that turns out to be a slab-reefed main.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    32,180

    Default Re: Single hand a Jeanneau 409/419?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yngmar View Post
    Just to once again clear up the still widespread myths about in-mast furling:

    * Sails have either no, or full length vertical battens,
    Agree with everything you say, except that short battens are possible, and this is what I was discussing with the sailmaker. these allow some roach, don't jam and avoid the difficulties of actually installing a fully battened sail.

    However, those who like the poster who questioned in mast some people think sailing is all about having 20 or so lines in the cockpit to pull around twisting the sail in search of that elusive fraction of a knot. If they have no experience of sailing with simple gear then you can't expect them to understand what it is all about.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Solent, UK
    Posts
    4,629

    Default Re: Single hand a Jeanneau 409/419?

    I'm surprised no one has questioned jumping from a dinghy to a 41'er after a couple of courses. I sailed a keel boat for a year or so before buying a small cruiser. It's no marina queen and a tight fit for four, but I can handle it on my own in close quarters without a bow thruster. Simple is as simple does. Having had a roller Genoa jam up with a rolling turn on the drum, I'd not want to be in that position with an in-mast system. Stack-pack and slab reefing is what I have and I've deliberately not had it run to the cockpit as there were just too many pulleys needed to feed the lines. OK when brand new, but they get tight with age.

    As I grow older, I value "small" but that's personal. Dom sails a big boat shorthanded and I admire his boat handling, but they both know what they're doing. I'd not think of going that big for a first boat though.
    Grow old disgracefully, it's more fun

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Home: Saffron Walden... boatless
    Posts
    2,443

    Default Re: Single hand a Jeanneau 409/419?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tranona View Post
    ... However, those who like the poster who questioned in mast some people think sailing is all about having 20 or so lines in the cockpit to pull around twisting the sail in search of that elusive fraction of a knot. If they have no experience of sailing with simple gear then you can't expect them to understand what it is all about.
    As an ex dinghy sailor I can sympathise with that! Lines to bend or straighten or stiffen or loosen everything. I had to resort to coloured lines and toggle ends to help sort them all out, even in my 20s it was a right trial. Racing, yes of course but for a cruising boat I don't see the need at all. I'm sold on in-mast.
    Last edited by Scala; 29-07-16 at 18:14.
    Graham. "Scala" now sold. Boatless.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    2,104

    Default Re: Single hand a Jeanneau 409/419?

    Quote Originally Posted by A1GSS View Post
    As an ex dinghy sailor I can sympathise with that! Lines to bend or straighten or stiffen or loosen everything. I had to resort to coloured lines and toggle ends to help sort them all out, even in my 20s it was a right trial. Racing, yes of course but for a cruising boat I don't see the need at all. I'm sold on in-mast.
    I'm horrified by the concept of 20 lines to the cockpit! We have 8 regulars
    port:
    main halyard
    topping lift
    Furling line
    Port side spinnaker halyard
    Stbd:
    STBD spinnaker halyard
    Reef 1
    Reef 1
    Kicker.

    That's plenty for normal. We don't use the regular Spinnaker much, preferring an asymmetric, the tack of which is on another small jammer.
    Our mainsheet track lives in the cockpit, so we don't consider the sheet an outsider led in!
    Once you are outside the marina/harbour it's pretty simple. An experienced dinghy sailor would adapt to the sailing itself very easily. Boat handling under engine/windage/tide/traffic/confined spaces is a whole different learning curve. Going big for your first yacht is upping the slope of that learning curve quite a lot.
    Not that it can't be done.... tread carefully!

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