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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    West Mersea
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    5,649

    Default Re: Notice to Mariners Week 13

    I would be interested if you could give more detail of its potential location. Several of us went looking for an American plane that was lost over the Estuary in 1944. The interest was that the last position recorded was approx 51.41N 01.50E (way over towards the Galloper) yet another plane had seen the damaged plane while heading from the North Foreland to the Buxey which could have been a typo error meaning 51.41N 01.05E. Hence we went to look for the FOUL just north of that positon where we found the German engine. So where is the US plane? Any suggestions where you saw that 'wing' would be useful.
    www.crossingthethamesestuary.com

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Southminster, essex
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    6,582

    Default Re: Notice to Mariners Week 13

    38 years is a long time to remember- sorry !!! & i was only crewing , plus it was pre GPS days. We were going N-S trying to get into the Whittaker channel which was so low that we could not find it. So we bumped from bank to bank using the echo sounder in the dark gradually working west
    From memory the wing was roughly to the north of the South Buxey. However, not the current position the, old position. When I raced round it in the 60/70's it was to the NE of the Ridge half way between there & the Swin Spitway (from memory) so you would have to look at some old maps.
    The Swallow tail had not been named then but a spit was forming from just SW of the Whittaker & beginning to block the entrance to the Crouch. This meant that you had to get through a narrow gap & aim for the unlit black S Buxey then the Ridge & the Sunken Buxey etc etc.
    It is all down to the fact that my wife does not understand me !!

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    West Mersea
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    5,649

    Default Re: Notice to Mariners Week 13

    Looking out my 1985 chart (when the Swallowtail was nothing less than 'less water reported'), north of the South Buxey would put it @ 51.40N 001.02.5E which is now just west of the Swallowtail West cardinal or rather where the Swallowtail West is. If I draw a line between North Foreland and Wetherfield Aerodrome the damaged US plane was making for home, that position is SW 1.25nm from the track! There was a brisk SW wind that day. Perhaps just all coincidence..... or.....

    I must dig out older stuff.
    www.crossingthethamesestuary.com

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Southminster, essex
    Posts
    6,582

    Default Re: Notice to Mariners Week 13

    Been up in the loft & found Reeds 1977 which unfortunately does not give buoy position but I did find charts prior to 1979 the nearest being 1976.
    South Buxey then was in position 51.40.50N 01.50.50E
    Quite a bit to the east of your quoted position but more on the track that you seem to be suggesting perhaps

    Took me ages to do that without my Yoeman plotter !!!!!! Need to brush up/
    Last edited by Daydream believer; 26-03-17 at 13:12.
    It is all down to the fact that my wife does not understand me !!

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    West Mersea
    Posts
    5,649

    Default Re: Notice to Mariners Week 13

    Ah, yes. Digging out East Coast Rivers 1979 edition (9th edition revised) the Ray Sand and Swin Spitway chartlet suggests the South Buxey is exactly as in 1977 - saving that the chartlet of course doesn't 'lat/long' it. But the position marks it in relation to the Whitaker Beacon and suggests it exactly as you had it in Reed's 1977. I note your annotation 001.50.50E - the WW11 radio operator quoted 001.50E as well and any search would have taken over to the Galloper. The suggestion is that another US plane saw the damaged plane at low level pretty close on track to Wethersfield - I recall it was on track last seen over the Knock John. I recall that the pilot crash landed at Bradwell aerodrome having getting his crew to bail out over Woodford. Dare I say that perhaps the typo coincidence is a message! Coincidences seem to have been very frequent - such as booking in a pub hotel in North Yorkshire and seeing that the Wifi password used the missing US plane's serial number!!

    Anyway just north of the South Buxey would now be on the terra firma of the Swallowtail. Perhaps a little walk would be useful..

    Thanks - very grateful.
    www.crossingthethamesestuary.com

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Southminster, essex
    Posts
    6,582

    Default Re: Notice to Mariners Week 13

    Sorry I have edited it. Rather stupid of me. I spent some time plotting it as the chart I had did not have any lat long reference lines. I copied it to paper before copying it wrongly to the thread.

    It really is a product of lazyness caused by use of GPS plus I use a Yeoman plotter for inputting waypoints etc so get a bit lazy with co-ordinates. As a result one does not actually relate co-ordinates to where one actually is. I stick the puck on a point & it transfers to the GPS.

    When i first started sailing in the Thames estuary in the 60's the reading would have actually meant something & i would have probably known something was wrong.

    Now it is akin to using the sat nav in ones car in which one may not always have a clue where one is. One just knows that one is somewhere between A & B possibly not even knowing where B is. It is just a post code somewhere from an address.
    Last edited by Daydream believer; 26-03-17 at 20:46.
    It is all down to the fact that my wife does not understand me !!

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    West Mersea
    Posts
    5,649

    Default Re: Notice to Mariners Week 13

    No worries. I wish I could get things right every time but .....
    www.crossingthethamesestuary.com

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    West Mersea
    Posts
    5,649

    Default Re: Notice to Mariners Week 13

    Just had a prompt of my (appalling) memory. There is a 1966 aerial image at 26,000 ft of an aircraft on the sands at 51.40.55N 001.04.50E! It would seem likely that is the aircraft you saw.
    www.crossingthethamesestuary.com

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Southminster, essex
    Posts
    6,582

    Default Re: Notice to Mariners Week 13

    I thought I had edited the 01 50 50 E to 01 05 50 E but I looked again just now having received notification of your post & it seems to have reverted to the original incorrect entry. & now it is too late to edit it again.
    I must be really loosing my marbles as i am sure I changed it correctly
    It should read 01 05 50 E
    Last edited by Daydream believer; 27-03-17 at 20:57.
    It is all down to the fact that my wife does not understand me !!

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