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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Newport
    Posts
    214

    Default Re: Bowman, gybe actions, end to end.

    i was referring to the number of crew, not the time.
    on second thoughts, if you've had that many kite broaches perhaps the offer of a place is withdrawn.
    I've had less than a handful when racing with other skippers, and one on this boat, which is one too many.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    327

    Default Re: Bowman, gybe actions, end to end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerenza View Post
    on second thoughts, if you've had that many kite broaches perhaps the offer of a place is withdrawn.
    All part of the learning experience. The Olson 30 is a really twitchy boat, liable to broach in a half a second under autopilot or bungee cord steering once the winds get above 20. But after all this learning I haven't had one now for a couple of years. And I've certainly learned how to recover and get back to racing in a few seconds.
    and one on this boat, which is one too many.
    You're living too far from the edge my friend.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Newport
    Posts
    214

    Default Re: Bowman, gybe actions, end to end.

    dunno, just think we go faster when we're upright.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Second Coast, Ross-shire, overlooking Gruinard Bay.
    Posts
    6,469

    Default Re: Bowman, gybe actions, end to end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foolish Muse View Post

    One of the ideas I'm trying to pass on in my book is that even if you are not a racer, it's important that you be able to sail with all of the techniques as if you were. This proves that you are a good sailor. If, for example, a sailor were to tell me that they don't use a spinnaker (which is common), I'd think to myself that they need to improve their sailing abilities so that using a spinnaker is normal. And the techniques I've developed for using a spinnaker singlehanded are just ways to make it more do-able for everyone.
    Oh Yeah?
    #28 proves why I have just removed my spinnaker pole and spinnaker and they will probably never go back on board as long as I'm solo sailing.
    Perhaps they might If I have a crew (who have a LOT of experience of the blasted demonic things!)
    If I need a lot of sail "off/before" the wind I hoist my old 135% genoa as well as my new one which is on a furling forestay.

    And that isn't very often either
    Kay Sarah Sarah
    5751.42' N 529.44' W

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    923

    Default Re: Bowman, gybe actions, end to end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Wilson View Post
    Oh Yeah?
    #28 proves why I have just removed my spinnaker pole and spinnaker and they will probably never go back on board as long as I'm solo sailing.
    Perhaps they might If I have a crew (who have a LOT of experience of the blasted demonic things!)
    If I need a lot of sail "off/before" the wind I hoist my old 135% genoa as well as my new one which is on a furling forestay.

    And that isn't very often either
    Robert, you shouldn't write spinnakers off as dangerous until you've sailed with people who are good at using them. The intarweb is hardly short of videos showing the hard of thinking trying stuff that's a bit beyond them.

    And as a matter of fact, I know which sail I'd rather be dropping and getting downstairs in a sudden squall, and it certainly isn't a 135% hanked-on genoa!

    Do come out for a little sail around the bay next time you're darn Sarf, I'd be glad to teach you.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    327

    Default Re: Bowman, gybe actions, end to end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Wilson View Post
    Oh Yeah? #28 proves why I have just removed my spinnaker pole and spinnaker and they will probably never go back on board as long as I'm solo sailing.
    Please don't give it up. You don't need to be anywhere as adventurous as some of us, but sailing with a spinnaker is just fun in any winds. I like to think that when sailing with a spinnaker:
    in 5 knots you won't spill your wine, even when you set it down
    in 10 knots your girlfriend will have a very pleasant evening sail
    in 15 knots you will will have actual fun
    in 20 knots you will have an adventure
    in 25 knots you will be pushed beyond your limits
    in 30 knots you have become an extreme skipper

    So, Robert, just chose where you want to be and go for it.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Second Coast, Ross-shire, overlooking Gruinard Bay.
    Posts
    6,469

    Default Re: Bowman, gybe actions, end to end.

    Quote Originally Posted by anoccasionalyachtsman View Post
    Robert, you shouldn't write spinnakers off as dangerous until you've sailed with people who are good at using them. The intarweb is hardly short of videos showing the hard of thinking trying stuff that's a bit beyond them.

    And as a matter of fact, I know which sail I'd rather be dropping and getting downstairs in a sudden squall, and it certainly isn't a 135% hanked-on genoa!

    Do come out for a little sail around the bay next time you're darn Sarf, I'd be glad to teach you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolish Muse View Post
    Please don't give it up. You don't need to be anywhere as adventurous as some of us, but sailing with a spinnaker is just fun in any winds. I like to think that when sailing with a spinnaker:
    in 5 knots you won't spill your wine, even when you set it down
    in 10 knots your girlfriend will have a very pleasant evening sail
    in 15 knots you will will have actual fun
    in 20 knots you will have an adventure
    in 25 knots you will be pushed beyond your limits
    in 30 knots you have become an extreme skipper

    So, Robert, just chose where you want to be and go for it.
    Thank you, both. I agree with all your points, and am grateful for your kind offer.
    However, as I sail almost totally single-handed, I find single-handing a spinnaker a task too much.
    I can do it, and have done it - and no doubt if I have a competent crew with me I might well fly one again.

    But the older I get the more I'm looking to make life easier!!

    I do agree that they look great (when behaving ) and can be fun - but the thought of a #28 experience, by myself, is definitely enough to put me off!
    Kay Sarah Sarah
    5751.42' N 529.44' W

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    108

    Default Re: Bowman, gybe actions, end to end.

    Quote Originally Posted by flaming View Post
    When you gybe end for end it's relatively easy to get the jib sheets right. All you do is pick up the jib sheet on the new side and put it over your shoulder. Then stand at the mast and gybe the kite as normal, dropping the jib sheet over the end of the pole before you beak the new guy.
    Ok been working on this. I have found the problem is if you gybe once on the run, as you come to the leeward mark. The hanked on jib is on the wrong side at the mark, if you try to move it to the other side in preparation for the mark rounding, this is when the sheets get messed up as when you drop the pole there is always a sheet under it

    At the moment the answer is to always gybe twice so it always goes up and comes down on the same side.

    Cant seem to find any good resources all the different symmetrical spinnaker handling techniques. Ie whats a Mexican douse .?
    Thanks again for any input 🙂

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    150

    Default Re: Bowman, gybe actions, end to end.

    Quote Originally Posted by tsekul View Post
    Ok been working on this. I have found the problem is if you gybe once on the run, as you come to the leeward mark. The hanked on jib is on the wrong side at the mark, if you try to move it to the other side in preparation for the mark rounding, this is when the sheets get messed up as when you drop the pole there is always a sheet under it

    At the moment the answer is to always gybe twice so it always goes up and comes down on the same side.
    Consider a scenario where you round the windward mark and hoist on STBD tack. The pole is to STBD, the jib is along the PORT sidedeck. The STBD jib sheet goes forward of the pole downhaul (this happens automatically) and over the pole, outboard of the pole uphaul (placed there by the bow as she sets the pole). The PORT jib sheet is in its usual place along the PORT sidedeck, but don't cleat it tight as you will need some slack in a minute.

    You now gype onto PORT tack.

    The pole is tripped from the mast (and potentially old guy) and moved across the boat from STBD to PORT. The bow places the PORT jib sheet over the pole and secures the pole to the new (PORT) guy. It can help the bow to set up facing forward with the PORT jib sheet over her left shoulder, ready to place over the pole. If not already done the old (STBD) guy is released from the pole, and the pole is pushed to PORT. The STBD end of the pole is made fast to the mast. At some point in this process the STBD jib sheet will have dropped off the pole.

    If you know that you will not gybe again you can now move the jib to the STBD sidedeck (taking it forward of the pole downhaul). A tug on the STBD jib sheet to tidy it up leaves you in a position that is entirely symmetrical to the original. Alternatively you should be able to hoist the jib from the PORT (windward) rail, perhaps with some encouragement to get it clear of the pole downhaul.

    The key step is placing the relevant jib sheet over the pole during the set and whenever you gybe.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    150

    Default Re: Bowman, gybe actions, end to end.

    Quote Originally Posted by tsekul View Post
    the main issue is that the sheet has to be over the pole in front of the uphaul. As you give you gybe the pole the sheet falls off and you need to place the other sheet over the new end. But if you have not moved the head sail to the other side, when you drop the pole you have to be really careful where all the lines are running. At the moment the quickest method is to forget the sheets gybe the pole. Unattach the sheets from the clew thread them through correctly and reattach. I know its not right and its annoying me
    T
    Just reread this comment from earlier in the thread.

    As in my previous comment if you choose to move the jib across there should be no need to re-run any sheets, so long as you place the sheets over the pole.

    I understand why dropping the pole and then trying to hoist the jib from the windward sidedeck is likely to end in a kerfuffle. We avoid this by hoisting the genoa first in most cases. Once the jib is up you can drop the kite as normal, but be careful that the lazy jib sheet doesn't drop off the pole and end up trapped underneath (preventing you from tacking).

    Alternatively, imagine you are coming to the downwind mark, on PORT tack with the jib on the PORT sidedeck (as per the final situation in my last post) in marginal conditions such that you cannot hoist the jib before dropping the kite (see http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread...eam-reach-solo for ideas in this situation). One option is to drop the kite just before the mark, but leave the pole where it is. You are then free to hoist the jib, round the mark and luff up, but you will not be able to tack until you clear the pole (which will be sticking up to windward jauntily).

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