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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Trieste, UK and Argentina
    Posts
    3,463

    Default Re: Croatia vignette increases for 2018 (?)

    I have heard that the Croatian marinas have got together and made an official complaint to the relevant ministry but I'm not holding my breath...
    Logically, the ministry should also be charging caravan and camera owners for the beds their vehicles have rather than just the number of people, but I doubt that is the case.
    As for the cruise ship argument, if these are a problem (and they are), why not simply refuse them a berth? Venice is moving (very slowly) in that direction, and I would expect (hope) that there be a disembarkation fee (€20?) that goes straight to the city coffers for each passenger. Airports charge it: why not cruise terminals?
    ad damnum pecuniae per navis

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    222

    Default Re: Croatia vignette increases for 2018 (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by crisjones View Post
    Who knows if the Tourist Ministry are using the Sojourn Tax as a means to limit tourism or as a means to raise as much revenue as possible? I suspect the later.

    Regardless of the intention it is still a totally unfair system as regards yachts. As far as I can tell every other section of the Tourist Industry (hotels, villas, campsites etc) has to account for the Sojourn Tax on a per person per night basis, with discounts for less favourable areas, off seasons and children. Only yachts have to pay a lump sum Sojourn Tax based only on vessel length and basically assuming that the vessel is filled to capacity at all times. If hotels et al can account for the tax per person per night then why can the yachting section of the tourist industry not be allowed to do the same? It is hardly a difficult process to administer.

    The only section of the industry to be hit with such staggering increases in the Sojourn Tax is yachting with price hikes of up to 753%. The rest of the industry has had a maximum increase of 14% with some tax brackets not being increased at all. It is clear that the Tourism Ministry has decided that yachts are a viable target for maximising tax income and they probably believe this increase will have little or no impact on visitor numbers.
    I wonder how the Sojourn Tax is implemented and policed with regards to Croatian owners who keep their own boats in marinas for their own personal useage - they are legally obliged to pay the same rates when they use their boats, but do they actually do so?
    People may argue that the yachting tourists have more money and so should pay more but the hotel rate is the same for everyone regardless of wether you have a budget €40 room or a luxury €1000 suite, it seems yachting is being taxed in a totally unfair manner compared to other tourist industries.
    I think people may have missed the point.
    When I first went to Croatia the vignette was a very reasonable sum - however a manager in one of the marinas, told me that in early days most of their visitors were owner-boats, "now 90% are charter boats".

    The Croatian tourist ministry is trying to reserve their waters for their charter boats and want to dissuade manky old boat owners from trying to go there and use their limited waters.

    There is a groundswell of official opinion that tourism is the ultimate in pollution, and I suspect that cruise-liner companies are going to find they are increasingly taxed by countries they visit.

    As Adam Smith remarked (and I translate loosely), "taxes should be easy to collect, not fair"

  3. #43
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Summer Walton, Winter Iberia
    Posts
    6,341

    Default Re: Croatia vignette increases for 2018 (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flica View Post
    I think people may have missed the point.
    When I first went to Croatia the vignette was a very reasonable sum - however a manager in one of the marinas, told me that in early days most of their visitors were owner-boats, "now 90% are charter boats".

    The Croatian tourist ministry is trying to reserve their waters for their charter boats and want to dissuade manky old boat owners from trying to go there and use their limited waters.

    There is a groundswell of official opinion that tourism is the ultimate in pollution, and I suspect that cruise-liner companies are going to find they are increasingly taxed by countries they visit.

    As Adam Smith remarked (and I translate loosely), "taxes should be easy to collect, not fair"
    Are the boats or the owners old and manky❓

    Possibly both‼️
    If in doubt - shoot the messenger!🇵🇹
    http://lagosnavigators.freeforums.org/index.php

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Croatia vignette increases for 2018 (?)

    As harbourmasters want payment in cash, it's going to take a few visits to the ATM and a wheelbarrow to make my annual payment.
    So after a relaxed 5 years happily feeding the Croatian tourist economy with marina fees, services with 25% VAT and regular meals out, the time has come to use the hook, DIY and eat on board. They clearly don't consider that we have choices.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    222

    Default Re: Croatia vignette increases for 2018 (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by glynhome View Post
    As harbourmasters want payment in cash, it's going to take a few visits to the ATM and a wheelbarrow to make my annual payment.
    So after a relaxed 5 years happily feeding the Croatian tourist economy with marina fees, services with 25% VAT and regular meals out, the time has come to use the hook, DIY and eat on board. They clearly don't consider that we have choices.
    Of course you have - what they want to persuade you to do is to free up facilities for their charter-boats - far more national income from them than private owner-cruisers.
    All outlined to me by one of the Gruz vignette issuers in 2009.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
    Posts
    13,074

    Default Re: Croatia vignette increases for 2018 (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by glynhome View Post
    As harbourmasters want payment in cash, it's going to take a few visits to the ATM and a wheelbarrow to make my annual payment.
    So after a relaxed 5 years happily feeding the Croatian tourist economy with marina fees, services with 25% VAT and regular meals out, the time has come to use the hook, DIY and eat on board. They clearly don't consider that we have choices.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flica View Post
    Of course you have - what they want to persuade you to do is to free up facilities for their charter-boats - far more national income from them than private owner-cruisers.
    All outlined to me by one of the Gruz vignette issuers in 2009.
    As long as you realise that just because you don't use marinas or town quays or try to leave the country doesn't mean that you don't have to buy the Vignette.

    There's less chance of being caught and fined, of course, but there's still a risk especially if you ever suffer any serious technical / navigational problems.

    Richard

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Switzerland. Boat : NE Italy (Adriatic)
    Posts
    4,119

    Default Re: Croatia vignette increases for 2018 (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    As long as you realise that just because you don't use marinas or town quays or try to leave the country doesn't mean that you don't have to buy the Vignette.

    There's less chance of being caught and fined, of course, but there's still a risk especially if you ever suffer any serious technical / navigational problems.

    Richard
    These patrol boats cruise the anchorages checking for such things as the current vignette. I witnessed their modus operandi when they went alongside an anchored, Austrian neigbour in the Istrian Soline bay and gave him a very hard time for not having an ensign or courtesy flag showing. After searching his boat and checking all documents, they waited until he had hoisted both before leaving. They checked no one else in the fairly crowded anchorage but I wouldn't have liked not having a current vignette with them cruising by, those ones were not very friendly.

    The HM office when clearing in at a port of entry is certainly centrally linked and my full details are immediately retrieved from previous years when I have arrived in the past. I can well imagine that these patrol boats have also links to the system and may not have to board to have a good idea about any vessel in their waters from name and flag nationality.



  8. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Greece in Summer, Southampton in Winter
    Posts
    4,392

    Default Re: Croatia vignette increases for 2018 (?)

    Two factors causing this increase in prices (however they're collected) haven't been mentioned.

    First is a notable surge in demand for small boat cruising over the last year, especially in motor boats - affecting both owned boats, and charter fleets.

    Second is the exodus of non-resident's and charter boats from Turkey; most noticeably to Greece and Croatia.

    There's now a shortage of resources to handle this traffic in the popular cruising areas of both countries.

    Ignoring sojourn tax, popular area yacht support facility prices are rising significantly. They will rise until more suppliers see the bigger profits - and invest. Typically, returns need to be >10% better to tempt new suppliers. That often means new businesses have to charge >20% more, because they don't yet know all the wrinkles to keeping their internal costs low.

    €3,000 berthing becomes €3,600 over time. That's not wildly out of line with the sojourn taxes increase for many users. Yes, some get a much bigger kick. Some don't.

    You can moan about, but can't fight, facility's cost rises.

    You can move. To a less popular area, with more difficult access, less to see or do. Or do the bigger sums and change country.

    Perhaps sailors should be culled to maintain the status quo instead?

    Compared with the western Med, both Croatia and Greece will remain very good value. Especially for those who like out-of-the-way places. There are very few of those left in the west med.

    JimB
    JimB
    jimbsail.info helps Skippers plan Europe Cruises

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
    Posts
    13,074

    Default Re: Croatia vignette increases for 2018 (?)

    My marina just emailed me to say that the Croatian Marina Association met yesterday with representatives from across the industry and have submitted a strongly-worded protest resolution to the Government to say that the proposed increase in the Sojourn/Tourist Tax is unwarranted and unfair to boat users who routinely pay a much higher per capita charge than other tourists.

    The Association are now awaiting a response from the Government so further news in due course.

    Richard

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Switzerland. Boat : NE Italy (Adriatic)
    Posts
    4,119

    Default Re: Croatia vignette increases for 2018 (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    My marina just emailed me to say that the Croatian Marina Association met yesterday with representatives from across the industry and have submitted a strongly-worded protest resolution to the Government to say that the proposed increase in the Sojourn/Tourist Tax is unwarranted and unfair to boat users who routinely pay a much higher per capita charge than other tourists.

    The Association are now awaiting a response from the Government so further news in due course.

    Richard
    This subject has generated much critical comment in the German yachting press, which also reports a Croatian nautical "storm" brewing in the local sailing forum "Nautica portal". So much so that the tourism minister Gari Capelli, who previously had refused to acknowledge any contact on the subject, was driven to try to defend the increase and saying that: "the increase was not so tragic, boat-owners should register only when on board, making the yearly cost more favourable". That response seems to have backfired as it was immediately criticised by: "the minister has now reached the Trump level of "alternative facts"". At the same time, a parliamentary discussion in Zagreb on the subject scheduled for the 19th October, was unexpectedly cancelled.

    It would seem that Croatians themselves are just as appalled as we are and that internal pressures are currently active to try to adapt this directive.

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