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  1. #151
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: The return of the cruiser racer....?

    Quote Originally Posted by wotayottie View Post
    according to RORC earlier this week you can do that sort of thing now.
    Do you mean have two different certificates? if so, that is not the case.
    The only additional certificate a boat can hold is a Short-Handed certificate which is specifically for 1- or 2-handed classes or races if the boat races in a different configuration than for full crewed races.

  2. #152
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,091

    Default Re: The return of the cruiser racer....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny RORC View Post
    Do you mean have two different certificates? if so, that is not the case.
    The only additional certificate a boat can hold is a Short-Handed certificate which is specifically for 1- or 2-handed classes or races if the boat races in a different configuration than for full crewed races.
    Jen, how many boats do you have that swap configurations between inshore and offshore through a season? For example, how many of the boats that Did both the IRC national championships and the Fastnet this year changed their configuration and re-rated?
    You never know, I might be right!

  3. #153
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: The return of the cruiser racer....?

    Quote Originally Posted by flaming View Post
    Jen, how many boats do you have that swap configurations between inshore and offshore through a season? For example, how many of the boats that Did both the IRC national championships and the Fastnet this year changed their configuration and re-rated?
    I don't have numbers, plus people change their sails/configurations for a myriad of reasons. As an estimate for your meaning, ie regular changes, you could count them on two hands.

    I have a challenge for you: Define 'inshore' and 'offshore', without leaving loopholes or events that don't fit into either category....
    Remember we are not just talking about UK racing and prevailing conditions here, but all sorts of races around the world.

  4. #154
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,091

    Default Re: The return of the cruiser racer....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny RORC View Post
    I don't have numbers, plus people change their sails/configurations for a myriad of reasons. As an estimate for your meaning, ie regular changes, you could count them on two hands.

    I have a challenge for you: Define 'inshore' and 'offshore', without leaving loopholes or events that don't fit into either category....
    Remember we are not just talking about UK racing and prevailing conditions here, but all sorts of races around the world.
    To me inshore is races of less than a couple of hours (intended) duration, usually starting with a windward leg setup from a committee boat and finishing in the same bit of water, if not necessarily exactly the same place. And would be races where the course is changed depending on the wind conditions. Good examples would be the IRC nationals, Dartmouth week, Hamble winter series, Warsash Spring series, Taittinger Regatta. But I think duration would be the key point, as would of course include races that start and finish from a fixed line ashore but are short club races where the course is selected for the wind strength and direction.

    Offshore would be races of more than say 4 hours intended duration or which start and finish in different ports. For example I would expect the JOG inshore series to count as an offshore race as they generally last about 4 hours or more and normally finish at a different port to the one they started in. But this is fine, as the course is relatively fixed and depending on wind conditions could suit either a good upwind or good downwind or good reaching boat. RTI should be an offshore event again because the course is fixed.
    Cowes week would be an interesting one, I could see an argument for either one, and I think would perhaps depend on the intentions of the course setting team. If their intention is to give mostly ww/lw racing then should categorise as an inshore series, if the intent is to include more reaching legs then class as offshore for rating. But that is the sort of event where I would expect the NOR to state which rating should be used.
    Basically by having both ratings available, and being clear about what split of upwind, downwind and reaching they constitute it would be clear to the club organising the racing which type of racing they are trying to run. Let the clubs choose the most suitable for the racing they intend to run, rather than telling the clubs what the rating is suitable for, despite the fact that most inshore racing is ww/lw because it's a lot easier on the race committees to run.

    I think if there are currently between 5 and 10 boats changing their certificates twice a year or so to mode the boat from inshore to offfshore, with the associated cost and hassle, there are probably more that would benefit from holding two ratings for different purposes. My argument would be that more offshore specific boats would turn up to events like the IRC nationals if they could do so with an IRC certificate that is optimised for inshore racing without going through the process of changing. I think in many years the certificate deadline for the national champs is before an offshore race. So it is not even possible for a boat that is doing that offshore event to then do the IRC nationals without compromising their rating for either the offshore or the championships. That is not helping participation.
    You never know, I might be right!

  5. #155
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    110

    Default Re: The return of the cruiser racer....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny RORC View Post
    I don't have numbers, plus people change their sails/configurations for a myriad of reasons. As an estimate for your meaning, ie regular changes, you could count them on two hands.

    I have a challenge for you: Define 'inshore' and 'offshore', without leaving loopholes or events that don't fit into either category....
    Remember we are not just talking about UK racing and prevailing conditions here, but all sorts of races around the world.
    Simple just use the existing World Sailing definitions from the offshore special regs eg for inshore -

    "Special Regulations for inshore racing are intended for use in short races, close to shore in relatively warm and protected waters where adequate shelter and/or effective rescue is available all along the course, held in daylight only. "

    and then classify every race that requires Cat 4 or higher as offshore.

  6. #156
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Calpe, Spain
    Posts
    40

    Default Re: The return of the cruiser racer....?

    Don't really understand all the rating systems that have been mentioned in previous posts as I have never raced in the UK. Have been racing here in Spain for a number of years and they use the ORC rating system. Have been racing my own boat for the last 5 years and hopefully have attached page 1 of a 3 page International rating certificate. This has the facility to use different ratings according the course used and whether it is onshore/coastal or offshore. Can't claim to have much understanding of it but does appear to work. Perhaps Flaming can understand the data presented on the certificate.

    ORC Int Cert 2017 Page 1.jpg

  7. #157
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    swansea
    Posts
    9,970

    Default Re: The return of the cruiser racer....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny RORC View Post
    Do you mean have two different certificates? if so, that is not the case.
    The only additional certificate a boat can hold is a Short-Handed certificate which is specifically for 1- or 2-handed classes or races if the boat races in a different configuration than for full crewed races.
    Well thats odd. Early last week I phoned the ratings office to ask about just this issue and was told that a boat could have different ratings for different sail rigs. I was even told the extra cost for having a second rating. In fact I'm pretty sure that Kerenza of this forum has two certificates for two different sail sets.

  8. #158
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    East coast mud
    Posts
    1,029

    Default Re: The return of the cruiser racer....?

    Quote Originally Posted by wotayottie View Post
    Well thats odd. Early last week I phoned the ratings office to ask about just this issue and was told that a boat could have different ratings for different sail rigs. I was even told the extra cost for having a second rating. In fact I'm pretty sure that Kerenza of this forum has two certificates for two different sail sets.
    You can flip between two configurations reasonably quickly by applying for an updated cert and paying for expedited, but you canít hold more than one crewed IRC rating at one time.

  9. #159
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Newport
    Posts
    158

    Default Re: The return of the cruiser racer....?

    Only one certificate at a time, I'm afraid.
    Gets a bit expensive too....

  10. #160
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    swansea
    Posts
    9,970

    Default Re: The return of the cruiser racer....?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrming View Post
    You can flip between two configurations reasonably quickly by applying for an updated cert and paying for expedited, but you can’t hold more than one crewed IRC rating at one time.
    That explains the misunderstanding. Effectively you can have two or more different ratings for different sail set ups but you can only use one at once and to go from one to the other you have to pay the RORC rather than just take another out of the chart table drawer. Effectively this answers Flamings wish in post 125 albeit expensively.

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