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  1. #1
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    Aug 2012
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    Default Hydraulic emergency bilge pump or generator

    Who has a hydraulic power take off on their main engine gear box? I know it is common to use such a thing for bow thrusters and anchor windlass, but any one tried the following

    1) Powering a mains generator

    2) Driving an emergency bilge pump?


    Tui's My Oyster Blog http://tuioyster.blogspot.co.uk/

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    Default Re: Hydraulic emergency bilge pump or generator

    My take on it is that any emergency from water ingress that has knocked out your primary bilge pump electrics , chances are it will also have knocked out your engine electrics too hence Rendering your gearbox useless which is driven by the engine .

    An emergency bulge pump alternative can be a manual one like a hand pump lever or a secondary bilge pump maybe connected to another back up battery placed on a higher level .
    Ocqueteau 8.15,200hpNanni.
    Buster Sun R,25 hp outboard

  3. #3
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    Aug 2012
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    Default Re: Hydraulic emergency bilge pump or generator

    Engine is diesel, so once running it only needs the air intake to be above water which is much higher that the batteries. The scenario is that you start the engine (if not running) as soon as it is clear that pathetic 12v pumps cant keep up, then your hydraulically driven 900l/min mother of all bilge pumps takes over and buys you the time needed to stem the flow. Manual bilge pumps are pretty much irrelevant in an emergency, they can only match a small electric one in flow (unless there are bigger ones I have not seen?) and tie up a crew member who could be helping plug the leak, sending out a distress message or preparing to abandon ship.

    The hydraulic PTO idea is just an alternative to mechanical PTO, and intended to be a much higher flow that a standard raw water pump (either the one for engine cooling used as emergency bilge pump or one driven off a pulley and clutch. Manual clutch obviously!)


    I considered a small higher battery of last resort for the VHF.


    Tui's My Oyster Blog http://tuioyster.blogspot.co.uk/

  4. #4
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    Aug 2012
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    Default Re: Hydraulic emergency bilge pump or generator

    Here is the sort of thing I have in mind, although you could attach a hydraulic motor to any big rotary pump. This is 900l/min self priming 34l/min hydraulic fluid at 100 bar 2" ports. It could shift nearly a tonne of water a minute, so I think it could help with a major holing due to a collision or damage to propshaft or rudder.

    water-pump-pacer-s-big.jpg


    Tui's My Oyster Blog http://tuioyster.blogspot.co.uk/

  5. #5
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    Aug 2012
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    231

    Default Re: Hydraulic emergency bilge pump or generator

    The smallest engine I was thinking of is eg a Beta 60 with a PMR 500 gear box with this hydraulic power take off

    http://www.prm-newage.com/p19-live-pto

    a bigger engine with a PMR1000 box can have a clutched power take off.

    The pump above can be driven by a 6kw motor, while the PTO can deliver up to 22kW/1000rpm so that seems well within its capability.
    Last edited by Bi111ion; 06-12-17 at 16:06. Reason: Adding power requirement


    Tui's My Oyster Blog http://tuioyster.blogspot.co.uk/

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    solent
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    331

    Default Re: Hydraulic emergency bilge pump or generator

    you could run a pump direct off the engine of course - but the potential advantage of hydraulics is you could put the pump wherever you wanted and plumb it in. You could use a hydraulic motor to power a large diaphragm (ditch) pump too. From bitter experience I can tell you they will pump out even a seaweed and shrimp filled boat without blocking.
    It's a fun idea. You could go really mad and have hydraulic keel lift, or hydraulic beaching legs!

  7. #7
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    Apr 2017
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    Denmark
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    Default Re: Hydraulic emergency bilge pump or generator

    Quote Originally Posted by Bi111ion View Post
    Here is the sort of thing I have in mind, although you could attach a hydraulic motor to any big rotary pump. This is 900l/min self priming 34l/min hydraulic fluid at 100 bar 2" ports. It could shift nearly a tonne of water a minute, so I think it could help with a major holing due to a collision or damage to propshaft or rudder.

    water-pump-pacer-s-big.jpg
    That does look bulky if you have space in your engine room I guess it will serve you well but it’s one hell of a load to be carrying around .
    If I have to rely on my engine to pump, I will go for the smaller engine driven pumps that can be engaged with a clutch like this one
    E6F03877-355C-4F26-8392-D29710464B8D.jpeg
    Ocqueteau 8.15,200hpNanni.
    Buster Sun R,25 hp outboard

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    231

    Default Re: Hydraulic emergency bilge pump or generator

    Yes got a huge engine room and the pump is plastic so weight is in hydraulic motor, but that is quite small.

    The sort of Jabsco above has an output about 60 l/min which is certainly useful but nothing like the Mother of All Pumps above at 900 l /min. Prices are quite close, but direct drive needs mounting bracket and pulley on engine where as hydraulic PTO needs the PTO and hydraulic pump, as well as pipes, a reservoir and a valve.

    I was thinking once you have the hydraulic system it is easy to run engine drive accessories including a generator, maybe a bow thruster, off it. If the hydraulic system only ran the emergency pump then (1) that would be a waste (2) it might not work when you need it as it doesnt get tested.

    I am new to hydraulics but its fun to learn about.
    Last edited by Bi111ion; 06-12-17 at 19:07.


    Tui's My Oyster Blog http://tuioyster.blogspot.co.uk/

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Far S. Cornwall
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    10,995

    Default Re: Hydraulic emergency bilge pump or generator

    Last time i looked into this a clutched hydraulic pump fitted to a PRM 500 gearbox was near £1k. Don't know the litres/minute number, but to drive my 1 ton pot hauler. Belt driven bilge pumps, with either manual or electric clutch, are going to fail if water gets to high, belts will slip, lecs will fail. But in that case, how much longer will the engine be running? Water that high is entering the (my) sump through the breather. You could look at an
    auxiliary engine to run all sorts, genny/pump/240volt etc, and hydraulics for winches. Gives you charge for starting, lots to be said for it.
    Using hydraulics for a genny or bilge pump is not usual, there are power losses in pipework, and every item would need a hydraulic motor, plus flow splitters.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Far S. Cornwall
    Posts
    10,995

    Default Re: Hydraulic emergency bilge pump or generator

    Quote Originally Posted by Bi111ion View Post
    Engine is diesel, so once running it only needs the air intake to be above water..
    I considered a small higher battery of last resort for the VHF.
    You need to start it before the starter motor is submerged. As above, my (Ford) engine sump breather is at the top of the sump. The high battery is a requirement for some, you'll see the box on the superstructure, or roof, near the radio. Mine is in the wheelhouse, with minimum direct connections to the VHF.

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