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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    4,572

    Default Re: A Little Wiring to Tidy Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal Tolan View Post
    To be fair that boat suffered multiple failures. There is only 1 type of system that wont be dead from multiple (but short of total) failure, and thats one where every individual sub-system will operate in isolation and be capable of resurrecting every other (or at least a chain of every other) sub-system. Not impossible, but a whole different kettle of fish from redundancy.

    At least it looks like theres enough room to do a goody tidy-up though.
    Not sure it did. From my reading of PaulRainbow's post it suffered a single failure, temporary loss of shorepower, and the design was such that that caused all the batteries to drain which disabled all means of re-charging them. Maybe he can add more detail.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,527

    Default Re: A Little Wiring to Tidy Up

    Judging purely by the pictures the owner clearly has no pride in his boat nor a clue how to look after it - unless it has only recently come into his ownership. As others have commentated at least there is plenty of space in the engine room to get it sorted.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    In the far North
    Posts
    9,404

    Default Re: A Little Wiring to Tidy Up

    I've seen worse.
    Like a lot of boats, its just suffering from a bit of organic growth as new systems have been added. Doesn't look too bad a job to sort.
    Claymore

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Suffolk
    Posts
    5,021

    Default Re: A Little Wiring to Tidy Up

    Quote Originally Posted by NormanB View Post
    Judging purely by the pictures the owner clearly has no pride in his boat nor a clue how to look after it - unless it has only recently come into his ownership. As others have commentated at least there is plenty of space in the engine room to get it sorted.

    The boat has just changed hands and the new owner has no idea how the systems are supposed to function, it took me a little time to work it out as there are cables going in all directions and many are redundant. In many ways she's typical of an older boat (even one just a few years old) where things have been added to things that have been added and more often than not redundant parts are not removed. It didn't help that the previous owner had sadly passed away. so was unable to pass any information on.
    Rainbow Marine.
    www.rainbowmarine.co.uk

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Suffolk
    Posts
    5,021

    Default Re: A Little Wiring to Tidy Up

    Quote Originally Posted by lpdsn View Post
    Not sure it did. From my reading of PaulRainbow's post it suffered a single failure, temporary loss of shorepower, and the design was such that that caused all the batteries to drain which disabled all means of re-charging them. Maybe he can add more detail.
    There were a few systems that could have been better. The domestic batteries being allowed to run flat is what caused things to go tits up, but only because some of those fail safes and redundancies i often talk of were not present.

    The boat has shore power and a generator, so there has to be a changeover mechanism, rather than relying on someone pulling the shore power before starting the genny. This can be done by fitting manual selector switch or an automatic one. This boat has a set of contactors (relays if you like) that are switched manually by a rotary selector switch. The control circuitry is 24v. So when you're on shore power and want to use the genny you fire the genny up and then turn the selector from "shore power" to "generator", the 24v supply is disconnected from the shore power contactor, which opens, and a 24v supply goes to the generator contactor, which then closes.

    Problem was, the batteries were flat, so no matter if you plug into the shore power or start the generator, you can't supply 24v to either contactor, because the batteries are flat. I have not been able to find any mechanism onboard to overcome the issue. There would have been less cable run if the shore power and genny were both connected directly to the rotary selector switch and the problem just wouldn't have existed.

    The fact the genny wouldn't start, because of a faulty battery or charger (not looked into that yet) is incidental. Another contributory factor is there is no external shore power connector. The shore power cable comes in through one of the engine room port holes, the connector and orange lead are visible in the pictures. It seems that when the boat was moved to its current berth the shore power cable was connected on arrival and was melted on the hot exhaust of the port engine. The owner left her on battery power until they went flat, then bought a new lead.
    Last edited by PaulRainbow; 03-01-18 at 22:20.
    Rainbow Marine.
    www.rainbowmarine.co.uk

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    33,723

    Default Re: A Little Wiring to Tidy Up

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRainbow View Post
    Problem was, the batteries were flat, so no matter if you plug into the shore power or start the generator, you can't supply 24v to either contactor, because the batteries are flat. I have not been able to find any mechanism onboard to overcome the issue.
    That's unfortunate. Our kit at work has remote battery master switches which operate somewhat similarly, but they do also have manual override levers on the contactors themselves. I presume the ones on this boat couldn't be operated mechanically without opening the case, if that's even possible.

    The dedicated emergency generator on the square-riggers I used to sail on has a spring starter so you can at least start getting some volts into the system with only muscle power followed by diesel.

    Pete

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Suffolk
    Posts
    5,021

    Default Re: A Little Wiring to Tidy Up

    Quote Originally Posted by prv View Post
    That's unfortunate. Our kit at work has remote battery master switches which operate somewhat similarly, but they do also have manual override levers on the contactors themselves. I presume the ones on this boat couldn't be operated mechanically without opening the case, if that's even possible.
    No way to manually close them Pete.

    The dedicated emergency generator on the square-riggers I used to sail on has a spring starter so you can at least start getting some volts into the system with only muscle power followed by diesel.

    Pete
    Even with the generator running, you still can't close the contactor.

    By way of temporary fixes to get some systems working i've connected the shore power directly to the consumer unit and disconnected the generator wiring. Some other oddball issues meant i had to put a couple of other bypasses in, but we now have shore power, 12v and 24v systems working, the generator is also running, but not connected.

    As part of permanent fixing i'll be putting a fully automatic changeover switch in that switches by using whatever input source is available.
    Rainbow Marine.
    www.rainbowmarine.co.uk

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Shropshire - Sundance, Bristol Channel
    Posts
    634

    Default Re: A Little Wiring to Tidy Up

    This is next winters job... I haven't a clue what's what but it's working at the moment and I've no big trips planned for this year!

    Tom, Sundance
    2wheels1keel.com

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Port Bannatyne
    Posts
    825

    Default Re: A Little Wiring to Tidy Up

    Ha! And my contribution, definitely work in progress...
    Attached Images Attached Images

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