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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    147

    Default Re: Double Diagonal Topside Seams

    What size is your ASR ?

    Jim

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    S.W. France
    Posts
    7,675

    Default Re: Double Diagonal Topside Seams

    3M 5200 tends to be frowned on by the 'real' wood boat people over the pond, as it is a PU mastic adhesive and cannot be dismantled later. Very good if you don't want it fail.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    473

    Default Re: Double Diagonal Topside Seams

    Quote Originally Posted by bristoljim View Post
    What size is your ASR ?

    Jim
    60'
    Jouet Golif 'Aljonic'

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    473

    Default Re: Double Diagonal Topside Seams

    Quote Originally Posted by DownWest View Post
    3M 5200 tends to be frowned on by the 'real' wood boat people over the pond, as it is a PU mastic adhesive and cannot be dismantled later. Very good if you don't want it fail.
    When Replacing planks I was planning on bedding them in a PU adhesive as an alternative to the calico. Do the real wood people have another a different alternative to calico and white lead which can be dismantled but has a longer design life? I'm quite interested to hear people's ideas on a modern alternative to calico.
    Jouet Golif 'Aljonic'

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Benfleet Essex
    Posts
    1,123

    Default Re: Double Diagonal Topside Seams

    I have done repairs to DD boats, even moderate damage means taking half the side of the boat out, each intersection has 4 or even 5 rivets, one each corner & one in the middle, thats a lot of rivets. You can still get calico or you could i suppose use dacron soaked in the goop of your choice. As said they were not meant to be repaired & were built for a short hard life.
    I have done a similar boat a 1905 Saunders launch, built in copper sewn consuta construction she was in very poor condition but was sucessfully replanked, I sandblasted the interior & epoxied it to hold the copper stiching in place. The outer layers were then removed cleaned & three new skins laminated onto the original inner skin. This created a new cold moulded hull with most of the original inside layer. I doubt this would be an economic option on a big boat!

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Solent
    Posts
    3,162

    Default Re: Double Diagonal Topside Seams

    Daft idea but here we go ....
    Captain tolly creeping crack cure.

    Basically a thinned epoxy and it does seem to work. I’ve injected it into various hard to fix places and used it over decks to seep into places I cannot easily get to. Seems to work well and once the crack or movement is sorted, it appears to stay sorted.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    473

    Default Re: Double Diagonal Topside Seams

    Whilst I'm a pretty big fan of Cap'n Tolly's I think the quantities involved would make it impractical, I doubt they make enough in a year!

    I'd always assumed it was a thinned PVA...

    Quote Originally Posted by PhillM View Post
    Daft idea but here we go ....
    Captain tolly creeping crack cure.

    Basically a thinned epoxy and it does seem to work. I’ve injected it into various hard to fix places and used it over decks to seep into places I cannot easily get to. Seems to work well and once the crack or movement is sorted, it appears to stay sorted.
    Jouet Golif 'Aljonic'

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    S.W. France
    Posts
    7,675

    Default Re: Double Diagonal Topside Seams

    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoNavigator View Post
    When Replacing planks I was planning on bedding them in a PU adhesive as an alternative to the calico. Do the real wood people have another a different alternative to calico and white lead which can be dismantled but has a longer design life? I'm quite interested to hear people's ideas on a modern alternative to calico.
    Sorry I didn't get back earlier. The Real Wood lot were (are) more talking about using 5200 on conventional wood construction, instead of bedding materials. Quite simply because the next bloke who needs to replace a bit, can't do so because it is glued.
    Double Diag is a different world and, with my limited experience on one small project, would be a very labour intensive fix for the whole of the topsides on an ASR
    Another thought is 'what was done then, but could be better done now' So, PU mastics (I use Sika 11FC) would have been a load better than calico and goop, if they had had them.
    Trying to inject stuff between the layers sounds like a hopeful idea, with no way of checking how well it permiates. Apart from mixing with old materials in the joint, which likely will not stick to it.
    Pulling the outer layer and a total refix is the best, if awe inspiring on time.
    Last edited by DownWest; 12-04-18 at 18:53. Reason: ASR, not MGB

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Hayling Island
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: Double Diagonal Topside Seams

    Sticking the planks?. I glued my top side with epoxy when I took it apart due to a five inch bit of rot growing to half the size of the actual side of the boat. Very alarming thinking back!. Wish I hadn't used epoxy too. D/D hulls should move and flex with the sea and Roves and screws allow this more than any thing sticky. I don't think that being able to split the planks again has anything to do with the way they fastened them in the first place. It took me forever to locate release the hundreds of roves and bronze screws and these little copper nails have a lot of holding power for their size . Soaked calico is used to stop any water seeping down the gap between the layers. Sikaflex has no place between the planks either but is best for sealing windows or bedding stanchions IMO. Its a Labour of love and you are probably better off getting rid of it or if it's still sea worthy then just enjoy it. I have had mine now for twelve years and it was rotting then and it's still rotting now. good luck with it.
    Last edited by Pells; 15-04-18 at 22:14.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    473

    Default Re: Double Diagonal Topside Seams

    Thanks for the replies.

    I've come to the conclusion it's going to be better to get the boat out and do a proper repair rather than experimenting with various bodges.

    I never wanted to go down the epoxy route for the reasons above, and it looks like using a PU sealant as a bedding compound, whilst it would allow the flex is going to have the same result of making future repairs very difficult. My current thinking therefore is a traditional style repair, but replacing some of the materials with more modern alternatives. The plan looks something like this:[LIST=1]
    1. Remove outer layer of planking
    2. Coat the inner planking with CPES or other epoxy instead of shellac
    3. Layer of fabric and white lead emulsion, PU coated Polyester instead of calico
    4. Seal new outer planking in epoxy to stabilise and increase durability
    5. Refasten outer planking in traditional way


    There are some parts I'm not sure on though, with a modern fabric would it still be best to use white lead for its anti-fungal properties, or would another goo be better/ last longer, roofing tar perhaps? If I was replacing both layers of planking I know it's important to do a section at a time so the hull doesn't move around, but if I'm just replacing the outer layer is it safe to remove it all in one go, or do I still need to replace in sections? Also if anyone has any experience in lifting a boat like this any advice they can give would be greatly appreciated.
    Jouet Golif 'Aljonic'

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