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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    SPAIN,Galicia
    Posts
    12,197

    Default Building a new replica or ....

    Restoring the original .There is a world of difference in time and effort between the two but does the restoring an old boat carry with it the essence or whatever of the old boat and is that important as the end result will be basically the same boat and maybe the allnew replica will have its own built in something?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    32,180

    Default Re: Building a new replica or ....

    You will find this subject debated endlessly in "classic" circles with no consensus, only entrenched positions depending on what either the individual or the yard doing the work prefer.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Sail on the Medway, Kent from Chatham Maritime Marina
    Posts
    1,800

    Default Re: Building a new replica or ....

    The hull of the paddle steamer Medway Queen was sent to be rebuilt, but the keel was replaced without realising it made the hull a new build and altered its status and has complicated the plans for the running of the ship. The new hull means all the latest safety rules apply, which she cannot meet without massive changes, so can only carry 12 paying passengers instead of hundreds. So, instead of joining the Waverly with lots of passengers generating money to keep her running, she is now part completed vessel with little chance of earning her keep, despite being a Dunkirk Little Ship (well a big one actually).
    If my foresight was as good as my hindsight, I would be a multi-millionaire.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Scotland.
    Posts
    13,957

    Default Re: Building a new replica or ....

    The blokes that carried out the woodwork on my Rival, A and R Way Ltd, build replicas and restore wooden boats. They said that a lot of the restorations are almost new boats by the time they finish despite a policy of trying to repair / restore with the original wood.

    Some examples of their work here http://www.aandrwayboatbuilding.co.uk

    I have no association with A&R Way beyond being a customer.
    "'...contradictions .... are deliberate exercises in doublethink." Orwell from 1984

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    557

    Default Re: Building a new replica or ....

    It's a good topic of conversation, and personally I have no particular axe to grind, nor dog in the fight.

    Luke Powell, who has made enormous contributions to old skool sailing, ( Eve of Saint Mawes then onwards and upwards) is trying to get a project going to make an old English cargo schooner, based on some rotting skellington ribs, and the other remains which have been preserved and protected by the mud of the Medway.

    She is the Rhoda Mary, a big old gaff tops'l schooner, quite a rare type, especially bearing in mind we had thousands of them, only a couple of generations ago.

    I asked him 'wouldn't it be a lot less hassle to start from scratch, with your skills and unique track record'
    and he said 'yes, but it's the connection with history which counts' .
    Which makes a lot of sense, and a greatly more meaningful wood ship project, in a variety of ways.
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    Last edited by Prasutigus; 09-04-18 at 00:20.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    557

    Default Re: Building a new replica or ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Wansworth View Post
    Restoring the original .There is a world of difference in time and effort between the two but does the restoring an old boat carry with it the essence or whatever of the old boat and is that important as the end result will be basically the same boat and maybe the allnew replica will have its own built in something?
    Sorry I can't do a link, but the philosophy is dismantled and examined by they who care.. now available as a free download, lucky us.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    3,199

    Default Re: Building a new replica or ....

    I think we are on to Bluenose 3.

    Obviously a 2nd replica the original was wrecked in the Caribbean long ago. I think most Canadians still regard the new Bluenose as Historically significant. How much original oak is left on the Victory or The Constitution when she sailed again.

    I saw a show on Netfix recently about a MK 1 Spitfire restoration which was dug up from Dunkirk. How much original Spitfire Flew again? Does it really matter? There is now one more museum quality MK1 Flying Spitfire even if the only original part is the plate with the serial # Is real or is it a replica. Serial # says its real.

    Crashed Beavers are usually restored. Why you can't get a new one? Unless you get a "New One" rebuilt. and Beavers are still the best at what beavers do.
    Classic cars talk about a Survivor as opposed to a Restoration.

    I think it depends what you want. If you can afford to restore a classic. go for it. If you can afford to have a new Classic built why not.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    3,199

    Default Re: Building a new replica or ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Concerto View Post
    The hull of the paddle steamer Medway Queen was sent to be rebuilt, but the keel was replaced without realising it made the hull a new build and altered its status and has complicated the plans for the running of the ship. The new hull means all the latest safety rules apply, which she cannot meet without massive changes, so can only carry 12 paying passengers instead of hundreds. So, instead of joining the Waverly with lots of passengers generating money to keep her running, she is now part completed vessel with little chance of earning her keep, despite being a Dunkirk Little Ship (well a big one actually).
    Odd sticking point. How did they determine the Keel was replaced. Sounds like a bit of a bureaucratic excuse.
    One question might be why is a vessel like the Waverly ok to sail with 1947 safety rules and this ship isn't. Which might tie the Waverly up.
    it should be a question of its OK to restore passenger ships under the rules which existed at the time or its not. and a restored ship should meet current requirements. Should replicas meet current requirements.
    If they carry passengers?
    How about crew?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Colwell Bay
    Posts
    5,526

    Default Re: Building a new replica or ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Uricanejack View Post
    Odd sticking point. How did they determine the Keel was replaced. Sounds like a bit of a bureaucratic excuse.
    One question might be why is a vessel like the Waverly ok to sail with 1947 safety rules and this ship isn't. Which might tie the Waverly up.
    it should be a question of its OK to restore passenger ships under the rules which existed at the time or its not. and a restored ship should meet current requirements. Should replicas meet current requirements.
    If they carry passengers?
    How about crew?
    I'm not sure what Concerto wrote is correct. The first application HLF was to build a new welded hull, HLF said no, should be a riveted hull as per the original. The new riveted hull was planned and priced and HLF agreed to fund it. It was well known from the outset that it was to be a new hull with as much of the original machinery, fittings, deck timber etc transferred over.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Scotland.
    Posts
    13,957

    Default Re: Building a new replica or ....

    The Waverley does not operate under 1947 safety rules, she operates under current regulations.

    Back on topic, even the Waverley is a new build: -

    http://paddlesteamers.info/waverley.htm

    She's newer than you might think : Although celebrating her 70th anniversary in 2017, little apart from most of her framework and much of her engine remains from her the Waverley of 1947. The greatest changes took place between 2000 and 2003 when she was substantially rebuilt, and although ship maintenance requires on-going replacement of parts, there have been other changes which have changed both her external appearance (albeit only slightly) and internal arrangements (much more substantially). Most noticeable was the difference in the rake of the two funnels after replacement in 1961/2 (lasting until 2001), the removal of the aft lifeboats in favour of other evacuation devices - and one change often overlooked : the replacement of the square windows in the sponsons (which were themselves replaced in 2001) by ports, recovered from the withdrawn Clyde buoy tender "Torch" and fitted in 1978 as a condition imposed by the DTI (Department of Trade and Industry) for her to undertake her visits to the Thames and Solent.
    "'...contradictions .... are deliberate exercises in doublethink." Orwell from 1984

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