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Thread: Steelboats

  1. #331
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    None of my welds has ever broken, in over 40 years of steel boat building .
    This sort of claim makes me anxious. Not that I think Brent is deliberately lying but because in the context of his admitted backyard techniques, it’s fantastic or phantasmagorical.

    In a former career, I used to wander past the workshops where the teams who maintain nuclear submarines were based. I chatted to the welders who worked on the nuclear plant and submarine hulls a few times. They showed me their practice rigs where they did welding to the highest standards that you can achieve. These were very experienced highly qualified welders and yet they regularly had to produce test pieces to demonstrate their welding techniques and outcomes and have them x-rayed and tested to show that they were perfect.

    Even welds that looked immaculate didn’t always pass scrutiny and yet Brent is claiming in all the welds he’s done in 40 years, of stick welding in a field or using makeshift Heath Robinson equipment in the cockpit of a boat none of his welds have ever failed.

    I leave others to draw their conclusions.
    Last edited by john_morris_uk; 22-12-18 at 06:37. Reason: Typo
    Semper aliud

  2. #332
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    test

  3. #333
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by john_morris_uk View Post
    This sort of claim makes me anxious. Not that I think Brent is deliberately lying but because in the context of his admitted backyard techniques, it’s fantastic or phantasmagorical.

    In a former career, I used to wander past the workshops where the teams who maintain nuclear submarines were based. I chatted to the welders who worked on the nuclear plant and submarine hulls a few times. They showed me their practice rigs where they did welding to the highest standards that you can achieve. These were very experienced highly qualified welders and yet they regularly had to produce test pieces to demonstrate their welding techniques and outcomes and have them x-rayed and tested to show that they were perfect.

    Even welds that looked immaculate didn’t always pass scrutiny and yet Brent is claiming in all the welds he’s done in 40 years, of stick welding in a field or using makeshift Heath Robinson equipment in the cockpit of a boat none of his welds have ever failed.

    I leave others to draw their conclusions.
    Its the real world John not the naval bull that surrounds that organisation. People can do wonderful projects without the worry of certification.

  4. #334
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by robertj View Post
    Its the real world John not the naval bull that surrounds that organisation. People can do wonderful projects without the worry of certification.
    The real world is whether a weld x-rays as perfect and doesn’t fail or perhaps you’d be happy to compromise nuclear safety? There’s no room for bull or dodgy welding when a hundred or more people’s lives are at risk when a sub is deep dived.

    I’ve only spent a few weeks at sea on a submarine but I’d rather know that the pressure hull and PWR was welded together by people who were tested and accredited and knew what they were doing. Or perhaps my experiences aren’t real enough?

    The real world dosn’t make claims about never having a weld fail in 40 years.

    I can weld (a bit) but it’s a bit hit and miss. If my life depended on it I’d rather trust it to people who I’m confident can weld well. No doubt I could knock something together that looked fantastic but so what? I still wouldn’t trust my welding and would sooner trust an experienced welder whether they were certified or not.

    When I needed someone to weld my Landrover the garage asked me to inspect some of their recent work. It was very neat and a cross section of a sample showed excellent penetration. I was happy to allow them to weld a new quarter chassis on.
    Last edited by john_morris_uk; 22-12-18 at 19:30.
    Semper aliud

  5. #335
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    The welding of submarines is a fine red herring here. The standard of welding required to hold together the mild steel parts of a home built yacht doesn't need to be in the same league, as you well know.

  6. #336
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by NormanS View Post
    The welding of submarines is a fine red herring here. The standard of welding required to hold together the mild steel parts of a home built yacht doesn't need to be in the same league, as you well know.
    I well appreciate that, but the point I was making was that if the super qualified and very experienced welders with excellent equipment occasionally have to go back and have another go at getting a weld right, claims that ‘my amateur stick welding in a field or in the cockpit of my boat using and engine driven Heath Robinson welder’ has ‘never produced failed weld in 40 years’ is a huge claim.

    I also appreciate that the standard required of the field built boat is not the same as the standard required of a qualified and certified nuclear plant welder, but not one fail in 40 years is a claim that needs challenging.

    As rotrax says, are we talking about the real world here?
    Semper aliud

  7. #337
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Nice to hear that properly made and maintained, that they will last.

    It does seem though, that all over the world, so many marinas and anchorages have elderly rust buckets rotting gently away and are iredeemable.
    Having sailed GRP yachts for 30 years, on a sea where steel leisure boats were frowned upon, to a degree, (generally on the basis that they were at great risk of rusting away).... I now have a steel narrowboat, on the canal system, where “plastic boats” are seen as the poor cousin, and weak compared to steel.
    Ironic and amusing

    Plenty of 20 to 30 year old steel narrowboats in good condition knocking around, and a few rusting hulks
    Narrowboating From Stretford!!

  8. #338
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by john_morris_uk View Post
    I well appreciate that, but the point I was making was that if the super qualified and very experienced welders with excellent equipment occasionally have to go back and have another go at getting a weld right, claims that ‘my amateur stick welding in a field or in the cockpit of my boat using and engine driven Heath Robinson welder’ has ‘never produced failed weld in 40 years’ is a huge claim.

    I also appreciate that the standard required of the field built boat is not the same as the standard required of a qualified and certified nuclear plant welder, but not one fail in 40 years is a claim that needs challenging.

    As rotrax says, are we talking about the real world here?
    A little bit of slag inclusion, or a lack of total penetration, is not going to make a huge difference to a steel hull, but would be completely unacceptable for any high pressure work. You are conflating cabinet making, with basic joinery. When you say a "failed" weld, do you mean something that falls apart, or something that fails an X-ray test? I ask, because though not a welder, I have done quite a lot of basic stick welding, including building a 35ft steel yacht. None of my welds have "failed", but many of them would probably not pass a professional test. What many forget is that intermittent stitch welds would be perfectly strong enough to hold the boat together, (think of wooden boats with nails or rivets). The seams only have to be completely welded because that is the cheapest and most convenient way to keep the water out. The alternative would involve caulking.

  9. #339
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by NormanS View Post
    A little bit of slag inclusion, or a lack of total penetration, is not going to make a huge difference to a steel hull, but would be completely unacceptable for any high pressure work. You are conflating cabinet making, with basic joinery. When you say a "failed" weld, do you mean something that falls apart, or something that fails an X-ray test? I ask, because though not a welder, I have done quite a lot of basic stick welding, including building a 35ft steel yacht. None of my welds have "failed", but many of them would probably not pass a professional test. What many forget is that intermittent stitch welds would be perfectly strong enough to hold the boat together, (think of wooden boats with nails or rivets). The seams only have to be completely welded because that is the cheapest and most convenient way to keep the water out. The alternative would involve caulking.
    A very accurate post. With BS's origami method, even more true.

    But-as a craftsman, the welds he posted looked appalling and to me, would have been an offence.

    As an more than competent welder with all methods I know that making a good looking strong weld takes little extra time time, but the prep and positioning of the metal to be joined is very important.

  10. #340
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by NormanS View Post
    A little bit of slag inclusion, or a lack of total penetration, is not going to make a huge difference to a steel hull, but would be completely unacceptable for any high pressure work. You are conflating cabinet making, with basic joinery. When you say a "failed" weld, do you mean something that falls apart, or something that fails an X-ray test? I ask, because though not a welder, I have done quite a lot of basic stick welding, including building a 35ft steel yacht. None of my welds have "failed", but many of them would probably not pass a professional test. What many forget is that intermittent stitch welds would be perfectly strong enough to hold the boat together, (think of wooden boats with nails or rivets). The seams only have to be completely welded because that is the cheapest and most convenient way to keep the water out. The alternative would involve caulking.
    That's true, but Brent's wild claims don't leave me full of confidence in everything he says
    Semper aliud

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