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Thread: Steelboats

  1. #81
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    855

    Default Re: Steelboats

    [QUOTE=rotrax;6595529]Again BS, why this information?

    If you read, look, mark and inwardly digest most contributors posts on this thread you can come to no other conclusion that they are experienced in sailing and worldly wide matters. The above info is something we all know.

    Also, you appear to judge other sailing centres by the backwater that you sail in.

    There are very few homebuilt boats in the UK by comparison to factory finished ones. Your advice is therefore pretty irelevant to 99.9% of the members of this forum.

    There are plenty of million dollar race boats in the Solent, which as you must be aware is one of the racing hotspots of the world.

    If someone thinks your million dollar carbon cutter can cut it as a raceboat or fast cruiser it will be sold.

    Like the boats you build, it all depends how good it is and what someone is prepared to pay.

    As I said before, ANYTHING you wish to sell is only worth what you can get for it.
    ^Quote
    Your suggestion being that, as ALL boaters are billionaires, then , any info on how to save money, and get a better boat for less, is irrelevant to ALL boaters , is total crap, to the majority of boaters. Sad to see anyone of modest means ,get discouraged ,and not even a«tempt the cruising dream, on the manipulative lie that only the rich can cruise ( which is exactly what elitists want them to believe) Had I bought that crap, I would have spent my entire life working, to make the rich richer, instead of cruising.
    My posts are not for the rich ,but for their would be victims, who see more sense in a $50K boat, and $350 K left over for using it , than a $400K boat and nothing left over to cruise with.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    855

    Default Re: Steelboats

    [QUOTE=Brent Swain;6597397][QUOTE=rotrax;6595529]Again BS, why this information?

    If you read, look, mark and inwardly digest most contributors posts on this thread you can come to no other conclusion that they are experienced in sailing and worldly wide matters. The above info is something we all know.

    Also, you appear to judge other sailing centres by the backwater that you sail in.

    There are very few homebuilt boats in the UK by comparison to factory finished ones. Your advice is therefore pretty irelevant to 99.9% of the members of this forum.

    There are plenty of million dollar race boats in the Solent, which as you must be aware is one of the racing hotspots of the world.

    If someone thinks your million dollar carbon cutter can cut it as a raceboat or fast cruiser it will be sold.

    Like the boats you build, it all depends how good it is and what someone is prepared to pay.

    As I said before, ANYTHING you wish to sell is only worth what you can get for it.
    ^Quote
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________-


    Your suggestion being that, as ALL boaters are billionaires, then , ANY info on how to save money, and get a better boat for less, is irrelevant to ALL boaters , is total crap, to the majority of boaters. Sad, to see anyone of modest means ,get discouraged ,and not even attempt the cruising dream, on the manipulative lie that only the rich can cruise ( which is exactly what elitists want them to believe). Had I bought that crap, I would have spent my entire life working, to make the rich richer, instead of cruising.
    My posts are not for the rich ,( one would have to be incredibly dense to not realize that) but for their would be victims, who see more sense in a $50K boat, and $350K left over for using it , than a $400K boat, and nothing left over to cruise with.

    I checked the site which shows shipping world wide, and was amazed at the amount of traffic in European waters compare to BC. Sure glad I don`t have to cruise there. No thanks! Here, I can cruise for 500 miles of the most beautiful coast in the world, enough coastline to go 3é4 the way around the world , up to 811 islands in 35 miles, not a soul around, fantastic fishing and hunting, no bureaucrats to be seen, and not see a ship. Sure beats hell out of your over populated industrial back water, over controlled by bureaucrats, suffering from severe UBA.
    Love my pristine backwater. I have cruised all the South Pacific islands which interested me .Been there done that. Made me appreciate home, far more than I have in the past.
    No wonder so many people come from all over the world , to live a couple of weeks, in a place I play in full time.
    Last edited by Brent Swain; 05-11-18 at 23:27.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    855

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream believer View Post
    Some typical tasks
    Agree the work & a price & where it is to be done & design with the new owner, Organise the construction area. Buy the materials & get them delivered. Set out the steel, cut it to shape, set up the jigs to get an even shape. Lift parts in to place, Steel is not light nor are the tools.
    Get the engine details sorted & lifted in to place. Get the electrics sorted get bulkheads positioned.
    Sorry Brent, your assertions just do not add up.
    I really find it difficult to believe, as I am sure others on the forum will, once they start breaking down the operations involved.
    Plus, when one looks at the state of your welds in a previous thread, I would expect even the simple welding tasks to take a long time due to poor quality work, requiring repeated over welding & unnecessary grinding etc to hide the bodging.
    Try another story.
    By all means, try get your steel shot blasted and primed at the source with cold galvanizing zinc rich primer. If you dont waste too much time building, it eliminates the need to sand blast, a horrible job. If it takes longer, then give the bare shell another coat of zinc.`You can weld detail bits thru it. Much easier to touch them up , than blast the whole thing `, especially inside.
    Your suggestion of setting up jigs, and lifting steel hull plates ,shows you know absolutely nothing about my methods, which require no jigs, or setting up.
    Search yahoo groups origamiboats , home, and educate yourself. Check the photo section.
    A multi chine hull around 36 feet will have roughly 180 feet of chine to cut, fit , weld up, and grind, 360 feet if it uses chine bars. Mine has 28 feet total .
    Your insults to my welds are based on the belief that you can determine the strength of a 6011 weld by looking at the slag, before chipping it off.
    Boy, with skills like that, who needs X rays or inspectors. Tell Lloyds surveyors that , and name your price. See if they believe you.
    One critic even bragged that his welds looked better AFTER grinding and priming , than mine did BEFORE chipping the slag off.
    IMPRESSIVE!
    Bulkhead positioning can be done in minutes, with a laser pointer. On the last boat I built, we set up a piece of rigging wire, on a comealong, from the water line aft, to the waterline at the bow. We tensioned it ,then marked the positions of the bulkheads along it, with masking tapê., The I took a square ,with a laser pointer taped to it, and held it on each point ,and pointed it at the hull 90- degrees to the wire, where I wanted bulkhead tabs, and the owner marked out where all the bulkhead tabs go. That took a few minutes, for all the bulkheads.
    Your doubts about my time lines , are based on the assumption that I am too dense to figure out many such innovative ways of doing things, and do them the primitive, outdated, dinosaur ways many builders do`.
    Most of the rest of my interior is hung off the bulkheads, eliminating the need for a lot more tabs.

    For electrics, running a conduit along the hull-deck joint, inside the paneling, lets you run or remove wires there any time. I had 3 Pacific Crossings , and 16 years of cruising behind me, before I put my first electrical system in. You can do much of that after getting off the hamster wheel, and heading out cruising.
    Last edited by Brent Swain; 06-11-18 at 00:21.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    855

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by rotrax View Post
    He can also build a useable block for pennies using aluminium from a scrapheap and a plastic cutting board in less time you can say the above.

    I know he can-he told me......................................
    Yes . I timed myself, using only hand tools. 20 minutes for a single purchase block. Stop being such a gullible , consumerism programmed , defeatist.

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5,215

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post

    I checked the site which shows shipping world wide, and was amazed at the amount of traffic in European waters compare to BC. Sure glad I don`t have to cruise there.
    They've probably learnt to avoid the area after all the reported collisions with your boats.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    S.W. France
    Posts
    6,775

    Default Re: Steelboats

    [QUOTE=Brent Swain;

    __________________________________________________ ____________________________-

    I checked the site which shows shipping world wide, and was amazed at the amount of traffic in European waters compare to BC. Sure glad I don`t have to cruise there. No thanks! Here, I can cruise for 500 miles of the most beautiful coast in the world, enough coastline to go 3é4 the way around the world , up to 811 islands in 35 miles, not a soul around, fantastic fishing and hunting, no bureaucrats to be seen, and not see a ship. Sure beats hell out of your over populated industrial back water, over controlled by bureaucrats, suffering from severe UBA.
    [/QUOTE]

    Brent
    You might be surprised to learn that there is no compulsory registration or licence to use a boat in UK So not so much in the way of bureauocracy.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Southminster, essex
    Posts
    8,334

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    A multi chine hull around 36 feet will have roughly 180 feet of chine to cut, fit , weld up, and grind, 360 feet if it uses chine bars. Mine has 28 feet total .

    For electrics, running a conduit along the hull-deck joint, inside the paneling, lets you run or remove wires there any time. I had 3 Pacific Crossings , and 16 years of cruising behind me, before I put my first electrical system in. You can do much of that after getting off the hamster wheel, and heading out cruising.
    So this multi chine boat gets 90 feet of weld both sides . But we have keel, gunwhale etc So somehow I suspect your 180 feet ( 90 ft per side)is a little bit misleading Yes I know you said "chine" but just 3 chine welds is 108 feet per side - 216 feet if it is 36 ft per length. ( not all full length of boat but curved so possibly 36 ft anyway)
    So there seems to be a need for a rethink Brent.
    Then there are the bulkheads, bunks, lockers tanks to weld. The hull is just the smallest part of it. I know, I built a wooden boat & I did that in my joinery works
    Even I know that an origami boat can easily distort if one does not take care to get the hull symmetrical
    You do not just weld 2 bits of steel together. They have to be positioned carefully after being curved to shape, They have to be held in the right planes then tacked together & each half paired. A few mm out & the hull will be a banana. (Still you keep on coming back so perhaps it does not matter if you sail in circles) That takes time. Unless of course one is working in a tent & just wants to bodge something together. If you do not get the hull right the other bits will not fit meaning more cutting and grinding (more time out of that 100 hours)

    Things like deck & cabin take a lot more welding & steel has to be cut & bent. If it is supplied cut to shape then the design of each piece has to be drawn & ( presumably CAD would be best here)sent for cutting.This all takes time & you only have a month because you are off sailing again as you love to remind us so often.
    True if it s a repeat design then that saves time you only have to wait 2 weeks for the steel to arrive- leaving 2 weeks to build the boat!!!!
    If you use a pre cut design from a supplier then the design may well not be yours as you claim.
    If you do design the boat yourself how do you do this when you are sailing? You must have a lovely chart table to set this out on your 36 ft boat to allow you to draw this up whilst you are rolling down wind to your next island.Cannot use a computer as the electrics are not in yet!!!
    As for not putting things like electrics in a boat then one can hardly state that one has built it in a month can one. We have said nothing about engine, gearbox & shaft etc or water system. Do we have windows , hatches & any deck gear such as winches on these boats, Steering gear, rudder, along with attendant shafts etc? Painting, insulation (very important as you have been telling us) Is the owner expected to do those things whilst he is sailing
    Personally I think - As I suspect some others on this forum possibly think- Your assertions about how long it takes to build a boat simply do not add up
    Last edited by Daydream believer; 06-11-18 at 08:24.
    It is all down to the fact that my wife does not understand me !!

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    South Oxfordshire, Gosport and Wellington New Zealand.
    Posts
    6,757

    Default Re: Steelboats

    [QUOTE=Brent Swain;6597400][QUOTE=Brent Swain;659739
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________-


    Your suggestion being that, as ALL boaters are billionaires, then , ANY info on how to save money, and get a better boat for less, is irrelevant to ALL boaters , is total crap, to the majority of boaters. Sad, to see anyone of modest means ,get discouraged ,and not even attempt the cruising dream, on the manipulative lie that only the rich can cruise ( which is exactly what elitists want them to believe). Had I bought that crap, I would have spent my entire life working, to make the rich richer, instead of cruising.
    My posts are not for the rich ,( one would have to be incredibly dense to not realize that) but for their would be victims, who see more sense in a $50K boat, and $350K left over for using it , than a $400K boat, and nothing left over to cruise with.

    I checked the site which shows shipping world wide, and was amazed at the amount of traffic in European waters compare to BC. Sure glad I don`t have to cruise there. No thanks! Here, I can cruise for 500 miles of the most beautiful coast in the world, enough coastline to go 3é4 the way around the world , up to 811 islands in 35 miles, not a soul around, fantastic fishing and hunting, no bureaucrats to be seen, and not see a ship. Sure beats hell out of your over populated industrial back water, over controlled by bureaucrats, suffering from severe UBA.
    Love my pristine backwater. I have cruised all the South Pacific islands which interested me .Been there done that. Made me appreciate home, far more than I have in the past.
    No wonder so many people come from all over the world , to live a couple of weeks, in a place I play in full time.[/QUOTE]
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





    BS, I am not rich. Nor are most boaters I know. Most have been or are working men holding down a job and have bought up or are bringing up a family.

    Like you, we are somewhat constrained by the area we live in.

    You choose BC-possibly because you were bought up there. Same for me, the UK is my home. So we live and sail out of, and return to, where we are comfortable.

    In the second part of your post you hit the nail on the head, but dont appear to have realised it.

    I have sailed around the San Juans, Vancouver Island and out of Whidby Island. As you say, very beautiful and wild scenery without many boats. So the boats you are fixated on are suitable for this area and its hazards-strong, simple and durable.

    That is great, as is your ability to build one for next to nothing.

    But your above post clearly shows your inverted snobbery. You look down on those who choose not to make a steel boat. You look down on those who choose to buy ready made boats and equipment from dealers, brokers and chandlers who you call liars and cheats.

    Of course some are, but where on this extensive long standing forum do you find critisism of these by forum members?

    There is some, but very little.

    And there are probably more small boats, and by association small boat owners, in the Solent alone, than in the whole of BC.

    Get off your high horse and try to understand that the way you go about sailing is only one way to enjoy the sport. Those who choose another way do not deserve to be belittled by a " Got one, Had one, Been there, Done it " like you.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    855

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by DownWest View Post
    Brent
    You might be surprised to learn that there is no compulsory registration or licence to use a boat in UK So not so much in the way of bureauocracy.
    That's good news .
    Thankfully, EU bureaucrats haven't imposed their own rules on Britain.
    My English uncles says, in many anchorages there, you find someone rowing out for money , as soon as your anchor is down, something I have never experienced here.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    855

    Default Re: Steelboats

    [QUOTE=rotrax;6597611]
    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Of course some are, but where on this extensive long standing forum do you find critisism of these by forum members?
    The thread on pros and cons of steel boats had a steady stream of it.

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