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Thread: Steelboats

  1. #1241
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    Oct 2010
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by dom View Post
    +1, mast weight of course being the reason people pay a hefty premium for carbon. Moreover, Brent's stability claim would not pass any recognised test as masts are often ripped off during B2 capsizes when AVS becomes relevant. Coupled with Brent's defective loading calcs, the inherent risk of these boats is becoming apparent to all.

    As many have long suspected, Brent's vessels increasingly appear to be dangerous, non-certificated DIY bodges. Sad really, for humans are generally a cooperative bunch and he might have fared better if he'd listened and cooperated, as opposed to single-handedly trying to rubbish the entire boat building and naval architecture industries!
    I feel much safer in a design which has covered over 350,000 miles of open ocean without a single serious structural failure of any kind ,one which has survived 16 days pounding in big surf on a Baja beach , being pulled of thru 12 ft surf , pounding across 300 yards of Fijian coral reef , blowing ashore in a hurricane in the Mozambique channel , a single season passage thru the NW passage , than boats which have repeatedly broke up quickly in similar conditions, or far lighter conditions. If God, Jesus, Mohamed, Allah and Buda, all said the latter are stronger ,and safer, and deserve approval , more than the former, it would remain just as big a pile of crap.
    Anyone who "certifies" wooden boats as "safe", but not boats which have the track record of steel boats, is absolutely full of crap, not worth their pay, and definitely not worth taking seriously. They are definitely out of touch with reality.
    Definition;
    "Elephant"
    A mouse designed by engineers
    If you want to see first hand, the difference weight makes, take a fat guy sailing in the average cruising 35 footer, in a 20 knot wind. Then drop him off ,and sail some more . You wont notice the difference, contrary to theory.
    Reality often contradicts theory. Yes the numbers do lie. Try it .
    The numbers definitely do lie, when they say sailing a quarter knot faster, while taking a year longer to pay for it, while the guy who went cheapo, gets a year head start ,will get the faster guy there sooner ,at a quarter knot more boat speed .

    For the average cruising boat , carbon like a lot of go fast gear, is a suckers game. That is why they advocate it, to empty cruisers' pockets, into their own.
    Last edited by Brent Swain; 16-05-19 at 00:15.

  2. #1242
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    Aug 2013
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    Used masts come fully detailed, with all the fittings ,and sometimes with the rigging. Sometimes free, often cheaper than the steel alone, let alone the time.
    This reminds me of an American book about off-grid living I read which said that you could light your house with candles from thrift stores. The problem with doing that - or with using second-hand masts and winches - is that while it undoubtedly has advantages for the individual, it doesn't scale to society as a whole, because someone has to buy the candles, masts and winches new. It's an individualist fantasy of sustainability.

    See also: travellers who reject society but use roads.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  3. #1243
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    I feel much safer in a design which has covered over 350,000 miles of open ocean without a single serious structural failure of any kind ,one which has survived 16 days pounding in big surf on a Baja beach , being pulled of thru 12 ft surf , pounding across 300 yards of Fijian coral reef , blowing ashore in a hurricane in the Mozambique channel....
    I'd prefer one which sails well enough to avoid these hazards. Rafts are easy.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  4. #1244
    Join Date
    May 2003
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    SPAIN,Galicia
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    This reminds me of an American book about off-grid living I read which said that you could light your house with candles from thrift stores. The problem with doing that - or with using second-hand masts and winches - is that while it undoubtedly has advantages for the individual, it doesn't scale to society as a whole, because someone has to buy the candles, masts and winches new. It's an individualist fantasy of sustainability.

    See also: travellers who reject society but use roads.
    I don’t think off grid people are trying to convert everybody,or people. Who build steel boats,there are downsides to living on the periphery of society so don’t get so worked up ,they are recycling stuff us urbanites throw away

  5. #1245
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Wansworth View Post
    I don’t think off grid people are trying to convert everybody,or people. Who build steel boats,there are downsides to living on the periphery of society so don’t get so worked up ,they are recycling stuff us urbanites throw away
    I think both groups have two subgroups: those who wish to live with less dependence on society and those who think society should live with less dependence on non-renewable resources. The former don't do any harm and the latter are where we all need to go.

    Which raises the question: environmentally is it better to built a steel boat which depends on coal for the material will in due course rust to bits, or a GRP boat which will last very much longer but requires even more fossil fuel for the material? Demand for 20+ year old boat designs is slow, so perhaps the one which has disintegrated by then is a better bet for the world.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  6. #1246
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    May 2003
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    SPAIN,Galicia
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Now if you could build a boat using Eucalyptus we could get rid of the wretched trees growing like mad here in Galicia!

  7. #1247
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    347

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Wansworth View Post
    Now if you could build a boat using Eucalyptus we could get rid of the wretched trees growing like mad here in Galicia!
    Shouldn't be hard. Dry it out, grind it up add in a little something extra (epoxy if How to Sail Oceans is anything to go by!), squish it (I don't mean pat it down, I mean hydraulic pressure squishing) into sheets/mould to desired form. It'll be roughly as strong as fibreglass.

    What you will find is that your boat smells heavily of Eucalyptus while in sunlight, so there's that (paint it possibly?).

    Edit

    Actually if you let it grow a lot, you can probably use traditional techniques, just the slats will be a lot thinner.

  8. #1248
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    May 2019
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    1

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Please, please, please do not let this thread end until we discuss the the ice breaking ability of the BS36!

  9. #1249
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    Oct 2010
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    1,287

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    This reminds me of an American book about off-grid living I read which said that you could light your house with candles from thrift stores. The problem with doing that - or with using second-hand masts and winches - is that while it undoubtedly has advantages for the individual, it doesn't scale to society as a whole, because someone has to buy the candles, masts and winches new. It's an individualist fantasy of sustainability.

    See also: travellers who reject society but use roads.
    Using what is already there is far more environmentally sustainable than wasting and rebuilding everything from scratch, which is as environmentally unsustainable as infinite growth on a finite planet. Anyone who doesn't get that, is either insane , or an economist.
    Is the economy our servant , or are we it's servants?
    Go ahead and be a slave to squanderism, the moral obligation to squander as much as possible. Id rather spend my limited time enjoying life, on far less materialism, in exchange for far more free time, and a clear conscience, when it comes to the environment, and the future of future generations.

  10. #1250
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    Oct 2010
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    I'd prefer one which sails well enough to avoid these hazards. Rafts are easy.
    160 miles a day is no raft. 15 days to Hawaii is no raft. 18 days from Hawaii to BC is no raft .

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