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Thread: Steelboats

  1. #821
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    [QUOTE=Brent Swain;6711201]
    Quote Originally Posted by rotrax View Post

    Seeing how little cruising time they get, and how much working time they have to do to pay for it, it seems they need a lot of advice, for those who aspire to do more cruising and less working , from someone who has accomplished that since my early 20s, to the chagrin, and frustration of those who stand to profit by keeping them on the consumer treadmill as long as possible. Does the latter describe you?
    Most sailors-by, I should imagine, a factor of 10,000 to 1-use sailing as a leisure activity. Cruising is part of that. In my own case, for about 5 months every year.

    Being a full time cruiser, living aboard an inexpensive self built steel boat may be an aspiration for some, particularly in the Pacific NW, which is full of those who like alternative life styles.

    But, as you have found, most sailors do not wish for that. They have stuff you show a great disdain for in your arrogance, like wives and families.

    Wives and families mean, unless camping on water is a great attraction, a little more sophistication than your simple boats provide.

    You again show your true mettle with such statements as " To the chagrin and frustration of those who stand to profit by keeping them on the consumer treadmill as long as possible. "

    The work/life balance is a choice Brent.

    Like choosing the material of a boat.

    It's all about what you want from your short time on this planet.

    You wanted to go cruising. Others like the idea of a family and a home, with a job that allows them a little money to enjoy other pursuits after looking after the home and family. It is a simple choice. You made yours, they made theirs.

    I think it is a truism that you only regret what you did not do.

    I hope you have no regrets about your life Brent.

    Most sailors I know are not full time cruising liveaboards and have few regrets about their choices either.

  2. #822
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    1,313

    Default Re: Steelboats

    [QUOTE=rotrax;6711258]
    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post

    Most sailors-by, I should imagine, a factor of 10,000 to 1-use sailing as a leisure activity. Cruising is part of that. In my own case, for about 5 months every year.

    Being a full time cruiser, living aboard an inexpensive self built steel boat may be an aspiration for some, particularly in the Pacific NW, which is full of those who like alternative life styles.

    But, as you have found, most sailors do not wish for that. They have stuff you show a great disdain for in your arrogance, like wives and families.

    Wives and families mean, unless camping on water is a great attraction, a little more sophistication than your simple boats provide.

    You again show your true mettle with such statements as " To the chagrin and frustration of those who stand to profit by keeping them on the consumer treadmill as long as possible. "

    The work/life balance is a choice Brent.

    Like choosing the material of a boat.

    It's all about what you want from your short time on this planet.

    You wanted to go cruising. Others like the idea of a family and a home, with a job that allows them a little money to enjoy other pursuits after looking after the home and family. It is a simple choice. You made yours, they made theirs.

    I think it is a truism that you only regret what you did not do.

    I hope you have no regrets about your life Brent.

    Most sailors I know are not full time cruising liveaboards and have few regrets about their choices either.
    I have no regrets about how I have run my life ,unlike many who followed your ways. I certainly would have if I gave up a lifetime of play time, for consumerism, and being told how to live, and what to do 8 or more hours a day. Guys often tell me "I'd love to be doing what you are ,but I cant, because I have a wife." The problem? Wrong wife!
    Works both ways .Not gender specific.
    A friend with teenage sons was told by their teachers how to check them for drugs. He said 'Screw that' built a super simple, cheap boat, and spent the next 7 years cruising the S Pacific with his family aboard. I sometimes met the oldest one, a cruiser, who says 'Thank god my dad got me away from the influence of those jackasses."
    Kids who grow up cruising are far more capable , innovative , self reliant , confident and mature then those who grow up just blindly doing what everyone around them was doing, unquestioningly . Taking them cruising is the best way for kids to grow up; in daily touch with reality.
    I have often encouraged my clients to buy an older plastic boat, for the experience. Building a steel boat is for after they have decided to make cruising a way of life . If its the same size, all the rigging and gear can be transferred over .Having dealt with living under a dripping, leaky, condensation soaked plastic deck, gives them a far greater appreciation for steel boats.
    Young women, living on their own boats here, tend to reduce them to the simplest and most basic , far more so than my boat. They quickly replace the head with a bucket, or less. Your suggestion that they ALL demand complex, expensive luxury, is an outdated gender stereotype ,and an insult to their resourcefulness and adaptability. Around here, they are far wiser than you give them credit for.
    Last edited by Brent Swain; 22-02-19 at 23:48.

  3. #823
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    Oct 2010
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by rotrax View Post
    I have just looked up the November 2007 report of the Gringo's collision.

    I read nothing in the report saying the ship was at full speed before the impact. I suspect it was at economical cruising speed, perhaps 2/3rds of full speed.

    What did appear relevant was the issue of watchkeeping. The watchkeeper saw the ship and went below to rouse the crew. The ship made contact with the Gringo before any attempt at avoidance or communication was attempted. I am at a loss as to why this was. Sloppy sailing, poor watchkeeping, poor comunication on board Gringo-who knows, apart from those on board at the time.

    The Gringo appears to have survived the impact very well-a sign that steel yachts are tough and durable.

    But we all know that. It is such a pity it has negative points that detract from its universal use as a yacht building material.
    How likely are you to encounter a ship doing any more than economical cruising speed?
    Watchkeeping, pre AIS, was not an option for singlehanders like me. AIS is a huge improvement. I wouldn't cruise offshore without it .
    I dont envy the traffic you have to deal with on your pond. 400 ships a day in the English channel. Haven't seen that many at sea in my lifetime.
    Here , I can go 500 miles without seeing one. I can count on one hand the number I have seen well offshore, in my lifetime .

  4. #824
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    1:-How likely are you to encounter a ship doing any more than economical cruising speed?

    2:- Watchkeeping, pre AIS, was not an option for singlehanders like me. AIS is a huge improvement. I wouldn't cruise offshore without it .

    3:-I dont envy the traffic you have to deal with on your pond. 400 ships a day in the English channel. Haven't seen that many at sea in my lifetime. Here , I can go 500 miles without seeing one. I can count on one hand the number I have seen well offshore, in my lifetime .
    I will answer in order as numbered above.

    1:- YOU said the Gringo was hit at full speed by the freighter in the post where you introduced it. It now appears that you accept it was NOT at full speed.

    2:-You are convinced that a steel yacht is a universal panacea for trouble free sailing. As a singlehander achieving long passages you have admitted that you are unable to adhere to SOLAS requirements. You are relying on a steel yacht to safequard you from your own self inflicted serious shortcomings in watchkeeping. Modern AIS will alleviate this problem, but keeping a watch is mandatory under the Internationally recognised SOLAS rules.

    3:- you probably have not seen them because you were not on watch! Regarding the English Channel, I suspect you would be quite put out by having 27 ships at varying speeds travelling E to W and a few miles further 32 ships travelling in the opposite direction. Plus the ferries-some doing in excess of 40 KTS-going your way, as we encountered last 0ctober returning from Cherbourg. You can only deal with what you find in sailing!

    Just saying..............................
    Last edited by rotrax; 23-02-19 at 01:04.

  5. #825
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    [QUOTE=Brent Swain;6711388]
    Quote Originally Posted by rotrax View Post

    I have no regrets about how I have run my life ,unlike many who followed your ways. I certainly would have if I gave up a lifetime of play time, for consumerism, and being told how to live, and what to do 8 or more hours a day. Guys often tell me "I'd love to be doing what you are ,but I cant, because I have a wife." The problem? Wrong wife!
    Works both ways .Not gender specific.
    A friend with teenage sons was told by their teachers how to check them for drugs. He said 'Screw that' built a super simple, cheap boat, and spent the next 7 years cruising the S Pacific with his family aboard. I sometimes met the oldest one, a cruiser, who says 'Thank god my dad got me away from the influence of those jackasses."
    Kids who grow up cruising are far more capable , innovative , self reliant , confident and mature then those who grow up just blindly doing what everyone around them was doing, unquestioningly . Taking them cruising is the best way for kids to grow up; in daily touch with reality.
    I have often encouraged my clients to buy an older plastic boat, for the experience. Building a steel boat is for after they have decided to make cruising a way of life . If its the same size, all the rigging and gear can be transferred over .Having dealt with living under a dripping, leaky, condensation soaked plastic deck, gives them a far greater appreciation for steel boats.
    Young women, living on their own boats here, tend to reduce them to the simplest and most basic , far more so than my boat. They quickly replace the head with a bucket, or less. Your suggestion that they ALL demand complex, expensive luxury, is an outdated gender stereotype ,and an insult to their resourcefulness and adaptability. Around here, they are far wiser than you give them credit for.
    I am working really hard to see what most of that has to do with the post I made.

    It does, however, reinforce the fact that you show severe disdain for those who aspire to a little more in life than you.

  6. #826
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    376

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by DownWest View Post
    Nice try..
    But..
    Fat chance
    You missed the bits where every alternative method of construction was trashed and any body designing, selling or owning GRP boats were called liars, cheats, con artists or just plain stupid.
    Brent does have a few good ideas, but they get lost in his constant wilder attacks on anybody who doesn't follow his creed. Not to mention the examples of 'proof' of his ideas/sales that are not anywhere like realistic.
    I did say it was an alternative universe

  7. #827
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    376

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    That is what I have been saying all along. ANY suggestion of ANY advantages of steel over plastic, automatically get a pile on attack by plastic advocates ,on most sites, except those with a lot of steel boat owners and builders, who have actual hands on experience with good steel boats.
    Brent, my post, albeit wishful thinking, was to show how you could have addressed this. Instead, you've been the one constantly attacking other people's life choices and boat choices, then getting defensive when those who have chosen a different path to you have kicked back against your tirades. You assume everyone who does something other than what you do is a victim of advertising and a sucker for working a day job.
    If you'd stuck to just talking about what you know about steel boats, you might have got some respect. But your invective and dismissal of anything that is not BS has just painted you as a sad, delusional loser banging a drum that most people are not interested in.

  8. #828
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    S.W. France
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    7,530

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by newtothis View Post
    Brent, my post, albeit wishful thinking, was to show how you could have addressed this. Instead, you've been the one constantly attacking other people's life choices and boat choices, then getting defensive when those who have chosen a different path to you have kicked back against your tirades. You assume everyone who does something other than what you do is a victim of advertising and a sucker for working a day job.
    If you'd stuck to just talking about what you know about steel boats, you might have got some respect. But your invective and dismissal of anything that is not BS has just painted you as a sad, delusional loser banging a drum that most people are not interested in.
    Quite, Brent obviously missed the intent of your post, just assumed it was pro his ideas. Not exactly a surprise.
    Like his comment on my building a wooden boat. Each to his own, but he had to disparage it. Bit pitiful really.

  9. #829
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    Oct 2010
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    1,313

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by rotrax View Post
    I will answer in order as numbered above.

    1:- YOU said the Gringo was hit at full speed by the freighter in the post where you introduced it. It now appears that you accept it was NOT at full speed.

    2:-You are convinced that a steel yacht is a universal panacea for trouble free sailing. As a singlehander achieving long passages you have admitted that you are unable to adhere to SOLAS requirements. You are relying on a steel yacht to safequard you from your own self inflicted serious shortcomings in watchkeeping. Modern AIS will alleviate this problem, but keeping a watch is mandatory under the Internationally recognised SOLAS rules.

    3:- you probably have not seen them because you were not on watch! Regarding the English Channel, I suspect you would be quite put out by having 27 ships at varying speeds travelling E to W and a few miles further 32 ships travelling in the opposite direction. Plus the ferries-some doing in excess of 40 KTS-going your way, as we encountered last 0ctober returning from Cherbourg. You can only deal with what you find in sailing!

    Just saying..............................
    1.Full normal cruising speed.
    2. Panacea? I never made that claim. Another "straw man" arguement .Far better odds and far greater safety/ Absolutely !
    You say people like Moitessier, Knox Johnston , Slocum , Chay Blythe, Phillipoe Jeantot ,etc,etc ,and all the pre AIS singlehanders , should not have been allowed to sail singlehanded ? You say only extraverts should have been allowed to cruise?

    Screw you!
    3. Simple solution to the English channel for people like me.
    Don't go there .
    Problem solved. I have a paradise to cruise in.

  10. #830
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    [QUOTE=rotrax;6711430]
    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post

    I am working really hard to see what most of that has to do with the post I made.

    It does, however, reinforce the fact that you show severe disdain for those who aspire to a little more in life than you.
    I define "more in life" as more play time and more time to do as I please 24-7 ,rather than more stuff, while having to sell so much of my freedom to pay for it.

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